Episode 383: Stop People-Pleasing: The Nervous System Science Behind Emotional Outsourcing with Beatriz Victoria Albina
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What happens when your body forgets how to feel safe? In this episode, Erin is talking to Beatriz Victoria Albina, a Family Nurse Practitioner, Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, and author of End Emotional Outsourcing – to explore the link between codependency, perfectionism, and chronic stress.
“Emotional outsourcing” develops as a survival strategy for safety, belonging, and worth, and it can leave us feeling completely disconnected from our bodies and unable to regulate our nervous systems.
Bea explains how somatic awareness helps rebuild interoception, restore digestion, and rebalance the body’s stress response and HOW these patterns show up in everything from poor boundaries to physical symptoms like constipation and fatigue. If you’ve ever struggled with people-pleasing, burnout, or the pressure to hold it all together, this powerful framework will help you return home to yourself.
In this episode:
How emotional outsourcing shows up as “brilliant survival strategies” like perfectionism, people-pleasing, and codependency
Why we jump away from imagined cobras as self-protection, and how somatic awareness can help
How chronic stress rewires your nervous system and literally halts digestion (THIS could be why you feel constipated or constantly run down!)
The rise of “therapy-speak” and rigid boundary-setting, and why it has left many of us disconnected
Why you need to stop outsourcing your safety, worth, and validation and begin the lifelong work of self-sourcing your own power, clarity, and calm
Resources mentioned:
Check out Beatriz’s book, End Emotional Outsourcing
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Bea Victoria Albina:
When you're chronically stressed, when you're looking outside you for validation, constantly, when life feels more about everyone else than about you, your body is literally not getting the signals to do one of your most basic functions, which is anabolism and catabolism and metabolism. You're not breaking food down, so you're not getting nutrients. So why are you getting sick all the time? Well, you're not getting your zinc and your C and your D because you're not absorbing right. Why are you constipated? Or constantly have the poopies? Right. Because you're wicked stressed.
Welcome to The Funk’tional Nutrition Podcast, spelled with a K, because we do things a little differently around here. I'm your host, Erin Holt, and I've got 15 years of clinical experience as a functional nutritionist and mindset coach, creating a new model that I call Intuitive Functional Medicine™, where we combine root cause medicine with the innate intelligence of your body. This is where science meets self trust. Your body already knows how to heal, and this show is going to show you how. If you're looking for new ways of thinking about your health, be sure to follow and share with a friend, because you never know whose life you might change.
Erin:
Hey, my friends, I've got a great show for you today. I have someone special who I just adore. Bea Victoria Albina. She's been on the show before and I just love her so much. I don't know if it's a New England thing. She's from Rhode Island, so we just connect. I love her presence, I love her energy, I love her body of work.
She's a family nurse practitioner, a somatic experiencing practitioner, a master certified somatic life coach, and host of the Feminist Wellness Podcast. But why I brought her back on the show is because I'm so stinking proud of her. She wrote a beautiful book that is out as of right now and it's called End Emotional Outsourcing: A Guide to Overcoming Codependent Perfectionist and People Pleasing Habits. So right out of the jump, you gotta get this book. You got to get this book.
I need you to get this book. It's a phenomenal read. It's a wonderful resource and it is something that so many of us need. I talked a lot about my codependent relational frameworks that I really had to work through and overcome this past year. And I just feel so much better on the other side of it. Once I became aware of these patterns, you can't change patterns unless you're aware of them, right? And I really had to become aware of these patterns and how they were, were impacting my stress levels and how they were impacting how I felt in my body. Huge, huge, huge work. And that's why I just love her work so much. She really helps women socialize as women, or, excuse me, helps human socialize as women to reconnect with their bodies, regulate their nervous systems and rewire their minds so they can break free from codependency, perfectionism, and people pleasing and finally reclaim their joy.
So we're getting into all of that today. We're talking about emotional outsourcing and codependency, how they're similar, how they're different. We're going to get into somatics quite a bit. A lot of nervous system talk. So this is a show that I hope you enjoy. I just love talking to her so much. So we were kind of like two Chatty Cathys.
So it's a little bit conversational, but you will still learn so, so, so, so much. So listen today, get the book and find your joy. All right, here's the show.
Erin:
Okay, Bea is back and we're going to chat. I've been looking forward to this one for a couple of weeks now. So welcome back to the show.
Bea Victoria Albina:
Thank you so much for having me. I too have been looking forward to this because you are a delight.
Erin:
It's because we're both from New England.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
That's why I think that's what it is we do.
Erin:
That's the connection.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
We get to say things like attleborough. Yeah, exactly. Attleborough. 495.
Erin:
You're saying it with like a littl bit of a New York accent, too.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
You know, that has happened over the last couple years. And I live with a deep and never ending sadness because I used to be able to do such a pure Boston accent and I could do Rhode island, which is like, it's, it's a little different and it deserves respect. But New York just contaminates it all for better and worse.
Erin:
I always say that like, like I'm a very intense person and, you know.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I appreciate that.
Erin:
A surprise to nobody. But the only people that can make me feel less intense are New Yorkers. And then I'm like, I am so cool, calm and collected. I'm chilling. You know, when I'm in presence of a New Yorker, like a true New Yorker.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
What about a true Rhode Islander?
Erin:
I don't know enough about you people.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Listen, if you're looking for trouble, you just found it.
Erin:
I did hear, I did hear a rumor that there's going to be a Bravo. Housewives from Rhode Island. Have you heard this?
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
This is not the kind of news that I'm hip to.
Erin:
Okay. It's very much so the news that I'm hip to. I'm very keyed in.
I love that about you. Yeah, yeah, Wonderful.
Erin:
I mean, I’ll keep you posted
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Would you please. Would you send a telegram if you. When you find out more?
Erin:
Absolutely. I have it coming your way.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Writing a book for years, and it means that I know nothing about the world outside of this computer in so many ways.
Erin:
I want to actually start there because you are a practitioner. You're an educator. We're going to get into those pieces and parts of you. But, like, as a human, as a person, you wrote a book. And I really want to just do, like, temperature check. Where are we at with that? What made you want to write a book? What was the lift like? You said you've been writing it for years. Like, tell it to me straight. How are you doing?
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Well, I have to tell it to you, gay, because it's the only way I can. My wife gets upset if I do it any other way. Just let's start there. A number one. Freaking New Englanders. You cannot take us anywhere. You can't take us anywhere.
Erin:
Tell it to me, gay. That tells the book.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I shall. So the book's been out for a little tiny minute now, and it's still very surreal. Like, it's surreal that it exists outside of my body. I can imagine humans who've given birth feel that way where they're like, oh, how are you a thing that's not just in me because it was in my brain for so long. I mean, there's ways in which I've been writing this since 1979, because it is a whole lifetime of, like, figuring things out. I've been such an autodidact nerd, like, who has figured things out on my own. Plus, done way too much school. Yeah.
I got asked to write this book. It's interesting. Hannah, my editor, was the last person outside my household I saw before the world shut down for Covid. I saw her that weekend in March 2020 at a. She, like, we met up for coffee, and she was like, I've been loving your podcast, Feminist Wellness, will you please write a book? And I was like, okay. Like, equal parts. Like, oh, my God, yes.
I love writing in equal parts. Who am I to write a book? How do you write a book? What is start where, Start how? But then also equal parts. Like, I'm such a fricking nerd. Let me just, like, get into it. And then that Monday, the world shut down. Life went topsy turvy, and I really didn't get back to it until 2022, when I, like, actually started clawing my way through it. And it was a really intense process of figuring out, first of all, how much, like, how personal I wanted to make it. Because the world has gotten so, like, everyone wants the scandalous memoir part, right? And to, like, to take your personal lived experience and make it, like, relatable in either, like, a broad brushstrokes kind of way that felt really depersonalizing, like it felt kind of yucky, or, like, make it scandalous. And I'm interested in neither. You know what I mean? So that was, like, an interesting tightrope. And then I had to figure out what makes my work unique and different. And I think that was the most exciting part. And I think that continues to be the part that even though the book is out, is still unfolding, right? Like, I'm. I'm optimizing the language and, like, able to, like, hold it better now because I. I talk about it now. Like, it used to just be in my head before the book came out. And now I have all these conversations. So it's been a wild ride.
Okay, I'll tell you the most embarrassing part. Are you ready? We're like, two minutes in, and our New York, our New England connection, I'm like, let me read you my journal. You ready? So I am a human who pumpkins around 9:30, maybe 10. I'm like, oh, time for bed. Crawl in bed, Sleep like a beast. And somehow in the, like, last three months of writing this, my brain was like, well, you actually can't write during the day.
It's actually not available. It will not be done. Oh, it's 11pm? Brain on! And my brain was not just, like, on in a cortisol-y, anxious, you know, like, it was on in, like, a focused download from the universe way. And here's the embarrassing part: The only song my brain would accept was Pearl Jam's Even Flow.
Erin:
Oh, such a great song.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I know, but try it from 11pm till 3am every day for three months.
Erin:
Was your wife like, could we not?
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
She bought me, like, studio headphones. Like, the ones where not one decibel would leak out. Because she was like, yeah, exactly. Absolutely not. I want nothing to do with it. So I would just sit and even *humming* I think it's because there's no discernible English words other than butterfly in there. My brain was like, this isn't English, it isn't my native language, Spanish, it's not even French that I más o menos understand. It's a third thing, which is grunge.
Erin:
Eddie Vetter.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right. It's a language, always grunge. Correct. And yeah, it was the only thing that would fuel my work.
Erin:
That is super. That's really curious. I want to go back to what you were talking about with the, the divine downloads, because yes, that is how I. So much of my work comes through me. Like it, like it's channeled in is the best way I can describe it. And you have to hit the flow like, or you have to hit like. When it comes to you, it's like. And I know because I just had like a big creative burst last week and I was like 11pm which is way past my bedtime. I'm like, I got to go.
Like my family wanted to watch Stranger Things one day. I was like, I can't be like, I'm in a like a creative download phase. Like, I just have to be fully present for this to drop in and to land. And I think that like so writing a book has been something I've thought about before and you know, as highly ambitious people, we want to do all the things all of the time and then we're like, we have to reckon with the fact that we have these physical bodies that like, you know, need to be care taken. But I also get the feeling, and I'm curious to hear your take on this. Sometimes when I'm like working with an energy bigger than myself, when it's coming in through something bigger than me, it's almost like this like self regenerating battery pack. I like, I always feel like it's coming out of my third energy center where it's like, yes, I'm, I'm doing a lot, but I'm also being fulfilled as I do a lot. And I can just kind of keep going.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah, yeah, that was definitely. I mean, me staying up till 3 or 4am like that's not humanly possible for me. There's, there is not. My poor adrenals, like there's not enough cortisol on the planet to fuel that if it's not some sort of something beyond. And yeah, I would go to sleep so gratified, like accomplished. Like I did something accomplished and really calm. Like not jittery, not, but just like. And what was really amazing is, you know, a lot of my work, because I work in the space of codependency, is a lot about helping folks to Intuit and feel into what their limits feel like.
And the exercise of writing this book was that 3am or 4am it was like a veil would just gently come down in front of me and my body would say, good night, it's time. It is time. But like the limit was a felt, physical thing. And I think it was years of doing this work and doing somatic practice and building up to be able to write the book that allowed me to feel both the calm chill, let's go and the like, basta, that's enough kitten, go to bed kind of energy, which allows me to now teach it in like a truly embodied way where my clients can feel it. It's not just words like I. I can feel a limit and I can sort of transmit that, as it were.
Erin:
So you said the S word and I feel like we need to go there. So. Mama, somatic is so hot right now.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Listen, everywhere kids these days, you know, kids these days with their somatics.
Erin:
Can you tell us what that actually like, what that word means? What it means in context with how you're talking about stuff like lay it down because you've been in the somatic space for a long ass time, so I'd love to hear it from you.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah, I actually did get my degree in Somatics at Long Ass University a long ass time ago. Thank you, God, two New Englanders. It's too much. It's too much. I hope there's a Xanax that comes with this episode because they're going to need it for our jokes because they're going to get worse the more comfortable we get. Listen, somatic. So Susan McConnell, who writes somatic IFS internal family systems, is one of my sheroes. She's outstanding.
I ate every word in that book 400 times. She says somatics is, and I'll paraphrase the shift from I have a body to I am my body. So somatics isn't something you do. It's a way of moving into being in a different way. Right? So the Internet is showing us somatics as a somatic practice for when you feel anxious, a somatic movement for when you feel angry, a somatic thing to thing. And that's the path towards. But the problem with the 92nd real is that we're stopping there, right? We do somatic practices to help us to understand self, to understand our body, to come out of living from the neck up, and to live in our bodies in a real way so that we can step into somatic praxis meaning it's just how you live, right? You don't have to like stop and regulate with as much frequency. I mean, sometimes, you know, you are just able to be in flow with your body.
Erin:
It's like baked into the fabric of your being. It's not something you have to like overly think about and stop drop in somatic practice.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right, right, right, exactly. Yeah. I was at this coach's mastermind and this coach was like crying and saying she doesn't understand why she gets so dysregulated. She does somatic so much. And I was like, oh, honey, but like your entire presence here has been so unembodied, right? Like you're just, you're talking your feelings, you're not feeling your feelings. And that's no diss. I mean it's a brilliant survival strategy. Good for her, right? But we don't just do it, we become it.
And so like, okay, you're cute, I'm a nurse, right? What is it? Let's get practical, right? You and me were practical. What does it mean at the end of the day? It means that when you're in a conversation and someone's saying something unkind, dismissive, disrespectful, putting too much load on you, just something that you wanna, that needs to stop, you can start to feel the signals that this isn't right in your body. When like a 0 to 10, where 10 is, you like start screaming at them at like a 05 and you get oh, that, that little catch in my chest, that means something's not right here. And that then like turns you on to start actually paying attention so that you can say like, hey, I actually that joke wasn't funny. Or oh, I'm not available to do that. Or oh, we're making fun of such and such group. Nope, I won't be a part of that. I'm going to walk away now, right? Or like set some limit or some boundary.
It also, in the context of my work, I talk about when we're shifting out of and rewiring our brains away from codependent perfectionist and people pleasing habits. We need to work with the mind, right? Because we need to work with our conditioning in the patriarchy and white settler colonialism and late stage capitalism. All that conditioning and socialization is in there, right? To be a good girl, to toe the line, to like not offend, don't upset the apple cart, et cetera, et cetera.
And we need to recognize the role of implicit and procedural memory, meaning the things that are coded into the body as how we respond and react to life. Meaning you're walking down a path and you see a cougar, you're not just going to walk up to it and be like, hi, cutie pie, right? Like, you're encoded to have the correct response, to get big and start screaming and do the things right. If you see a snake in the path, your implicit memory, you're going to jump away from it. You're going to move away and protect yourself. But what happens when we are raised up with emotional outsourcing is you say to your partner, hey, Mike, you want to go get burritos? And he goes, oh, I don't know.
And, like, Joss is barely making a grimace. You're like, don't worry about it. It's okay. Don't worry. We could do sushi, we can do pizza. We can do whatever you like. It's fine. Don't worry about it.
And where's your desire? Where's your volition? Where's what you want? It's gone before you've even realized it because you jumped away from a cobra, which was actually not a cobra. It was an opinion. It was someone having a thought. And like, maybe homeboy has gas, right? And that's why he doesn't want another bean burrito. But that memory in your body towards self protection, towards safety, belonging, and worth, which are the three things we're lacking in childhood that lead us into emotional outsourcing, that need to secure those things outside of ourselves makes us read every situation in the world through the lens of doom without even realizing it. And so we react to protect ourselves from the body, from the soma, overriding anything and everything.
Erin:
What's the interplay between interoception and somatics? Same. Same.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I thought you'd never ask. So interoception is the ability to feel the things within interro, as opposed to exteroception. And so interoception gets really shut down, an emotional outsourcing. And so somatic practice can help us to bring that back online. So what I'm talking about here, what we are talking about is things like biological impulses. So if you're listening, raise your hand if you have uttered the phrase, oh, I'll just go eat or pee or rest or poop or whatever. After I finish a spreadsheet, after I make this last bed, after I. After I do a labor, do something productive.
Do like, quote unquote productive, do something that will gain me external, valid, or create the internal sense that I'm good enough. As opposed to just believing it. So those interoceptive signals get. I don't want to say hijacked, but I do. Right. It's too simplistic, but it does the thing I need. They get recoded in ways they shouldn't be coded. Is that making sense? Right.
Erin:
Well, if they're overridden enough times, then that probably reprograms or reposts them to be like, this doesn't matter. And maybe the messages aren't. That are coming from inside the house, aren't coming as loudly as they once were.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Totally. Yeah. I mean, I feel like, you know, you're five and you go to school and you can't pee when you want to or eat when you want to or play when you want to, or have fresh air or drink water. Like, you all of a sudden can't do anything when you want to. So it becomes smart to stop hearing those signals because those signals clash with your source of safety, your source of approval, your source of, that's a good girl. Right? And all of a sudden, you're demanding, you're annoying, you're needy. Right? Which is a terrible thing when it's women. What could be worse, right? So, yeah, you stop hearing your signals of what's safe and not safe, or if you do hear them, you ignore.
Erin:
Them in, like, cut to 20, 30, 40 years later, and we have, like, a nation of women running around being like, how do I eat? Like, what makes me feel good?
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right?
Erin:
I don't know how to feed myself. Like, I don't know how to do the most basic thing, which is just to fuel myself. I have no idea. How do I eat? How many carbs do I need? How many calories do we need? And it's, like, completely outsourced and external versus, like, what do I need exactly? What makes me feel good? What makes me feel bad? When do I feel full? When do I feel hungry? Like, those messages, like, go offline.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yep. Yeah, for sure. When I had my functional medicine practice, the 1 million times a day, I'd be asked, so wait, what should I eat? What should I eat? And I. People would get so pissed when I'd say, well, what. What makes you feel good? Panic inducing.
Erin:
Panic.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Panic.
Erin:
Like being thrown to the wolf.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah.
Erin:
Because for so long, we're taught, like, we're not. Like, our impulses are not to be trusted, especially as women. Like, they're wrong, they're bad, they're dirty, they're, like, they're not to be trusted. So then we stop trusting them. And so then we're reaching to external authority figures say, but what do I do? This body of mine, how do I, how do I manage it? What do I do for it? What do I put in? Like what's supposed to come out? Like, we're just, it's come up so far offline.
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Erin Holt:
One of the things that I say, that it's interesting that you use this word outsource, emotional outsource, which I really do want to talk into that in just a minute.
But so much of the work that I do is to teach people to self source over outsource. That is a process that is a journey that is not an overnight success story, but it's really about reorienting them back to their own innate power and healing capacity. And in the process of doing that, we can really become more aware of the places that we are outsourcing. You know, you did a lot with functional medicine. You use labs. I think we can use all of the external data points, like lab values. But the way that I see them is like we're always using them as a way to bring us back into ourselves. Like, okay, we're going to connect this external data point with a data point inside.
That's the way that I see my work. But I do want to talk about this in emotional outsourcing because it's one of the ways that we outsource. A lot of your work is with codependency, but you're saying that these things are slightly different. So can you explain the differences and the nuances?
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah. So part of why I created the term was I was looking at my patients, my clients and myself and my friends. And I saw this overlap of codependency, perfectionism, and people pleasing. And when I would think about them for myself, I didn't like any of those words. Right. So when we look at codependency as a thing, it comes from the 12 step world. And if you're sober, I'm not coming for you. I have no commentary.
If 12 step saved your life and you're sober, hallelujah, I'm so whatever it takes, delighted for you, especially as a primary care provider. Way to go. What I am talking about is my own side of the street, where I stand firmly on that side to say that framework, it's a clone, like a rubber stamp of the 12 steps is in the uses, the big book, and therefore talks about codependency as like an identity.
That you have to say, I am codependent. You have to talk about and understand how your character is defective. That's where they lost me and all the higher power stuff. For people who are already outsourcing with no real move towards sourcing internally before connecting with some kind of higher power. Right. So I'm not saying there's something wrong with believing in a higher power. I'm saying we need to reclaim our power first and then make these decisions about what we want to believe in and what we want to really lean on. Does that make sense? Right. That I'm not eschewing it. I'm simply saying we need to find the power within and the agency and the, like, locus of choicefulness.
Erin:
Yeah. And you. You said something at the top of this call of, like, how you kind of just like, figured your stuff out from day one. Like, that's exactly how I see myself. And I can borrow from and learn from different frameworks, but I've never met one framework where I can take it and place it directly on and be like, this is my framework now. I. I pull pieces and parts, and I'm a forever student, and I'm always learning. And I can see myself in that. And I can see myself in that. And I think that that's totally, totally fine. Yeah, I hear you in that. You're saying this framework works for some people. It didn't work for me, but I learned some things about codependency.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right. Yeah, right on. And so then we see codependency as a term really come into the popular parlance during the war on drugs, Right. Where it was. It was this real parallel play for substance use and quote, unquote, alcoholics and drug users who are being super maligned, you know, In the Reagan era. And so codependency was about enabling women who were, like, so needy. And it's really just like a masterclass in misogyny at the end of the day.
And I really wanted to create a new term for a new generation in an intersectional feminist framework where we could really see that these behaviors don't mean we're defective. In fact, I think they're survival skills that are brilliant and amazing and incredible and should be applauded and lauded and like, wow, look at you. Six years old and you figured out, oh, mommy just came home from work and her footsteps sound kind of heavy, which means she's upset, which means I need to race out and show her my A+ in spelling and show her how I can do a twirl and make sure that my brothers are in the backyard and they're not being too loud. And I'm going to emotionally manage these grownups, these siblings, this household. I'm going to twist myself into pretzel knots to make this all not be explosive. And you're six or you're eight or Ten.
Erin:
My tummy twisted up into pretzel knots when you said that.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Well, because it's so real, Right? I mean, how many girls in school, like, the problem boy is put at her table because she'll keep an eye on him, Right. She'll Keep an eye on him. She'll. She'll make sure that he's. That Liam's not being too loud. Yep, she's got it. Don't worry. Megan's got him.
That's fine, right? So we're taught from so young in the patriarchy that our role is to control everyone else's emotions. And so how could it be more defective? I think it means we're so fricking smart.
Like, wow, I figured it out. And like, wow, Codependent habits, right? Not codependent seeks. I don't think it's your identity. I don't think it's your constitution or your character, who you are. It should be celebrated because when we celebrate, we get our nervous system into ventral vagal, the safe and social part. When we applaud ourselves and get ourselves a fricking cake, right? And balloons and, like, throw a party for child us for being so freaking smart that we can celebrate what was and then can have the cognitive capacity and the energy and the stable mood and everything that comes with ventral vagal to then notice when we're doing something that is an old behavior and can shift it.
But if it's just who you are, it's. You're perma effed. I can't help you.
Erin:
You also, you can't heal or evolve from something you've locked in as an identity. Like, it's just, I won't work.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
It's clearly not possible.
Erin:
I am a codependent. Like, that will forever be true if you're identifying with it versus looking at it as adaptive behaviors.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Perma effed.
Erin:
Yeah.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I said that on a webinar a couple. Five years ago, and I just can't stop saying it because it really. It really is the old school way of thinking about this permaft. It's who you are. Good freaking luck to you. Good luck.
Erin:
It also, you know. I see. So I call it the trauma trap, where people, you know, we're awakening to this fact that, like, oh, how we were raised, how our parents interfaced with us, like, you really set us up. And. And it's such a great awareness to have. But then people can get stuck there. I am the way I am because of these people. I am the way I am because of the way I was raised. And there's no, like, movement beyond that. And people can just get so stuck and trapped there and locked in.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
For sure. For sure. It happens with attachment as well, right? People start to, like, push the story of their attachment onto, like, everything in life. Right? It just Any label, any pop psychology. It's. Yeah, it can just be generalized and globalized in ways that are. And globalizing is such a habit from emotional outsourcing. Right.
Erin:
So we'll say more.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah, so we tend to have really black and white, all or nothing kind of thinking because it's safer there. There's a degree of emotional immaturity that's part and parcel of emotional outsourcing.
Erin:
Right.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Because we can get in a way quite emotionally stunted growing up in these environments under these systems of oppression. And so we can think about the 6 year old, she's gotta say angry footsteps, happy footsteps.
And so when we're reacting from the amygdala, it's, it's a very binary system. It's cobra stick in the tabby, cat, lion. And so we move into adulthood and things are wrong or things are right, things are good careers and bad careers. Good people, bad people. And we, we step into this binary categorization because our brains are often in this like hyper vigilant survival mode and our nervous systems are really attuned to trying to source safety in a life that has always felt somewhat or largely unsafe. So we gotta make those sort of split second decisions and we believe they're what's protecting us. So we just keep doing it. And I also think we don't realize we're doing it totally. So we just keep doing it and then we just globalize everything.
Erin:
Can we talk like bring this into the physical health and like how these patterns can play out through the body, through our like illness and symptoms and all of that.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah. So there is a profound dysregulation in the nervous system that comes with living in emotional outsourcing. Right. So again, we're in that hyper vigilance. So our nervous systems are jacked from jump. Right.
They never really get to fully, fully rest. Because even if you're doing the somatics. Even if, even if you're watching all the 90 second rules and like spinning your hands around while pulling on your ear, even then, Aaron, can you believe it? It's unimaginable. You know where that doesn't happen is in Rhode island. Because everything's perfect in Rhode Island.
Erin:
The housewives will clue us into that.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I have a lot of questions. They're probably from Newport, they're probably not even from Rhode Island.
Erin:
I mean, anyway, I thought they were going to be from Cranston.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Oh my God, if they're from Cranston, I'm going to tune in, I'm going to subscribe I'm going to tune, I'm going to get the T shirt. Viewing right there is really good for you.
Erin:
Okay, back to the body.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Back to the body. Bodies dysregulation jacks your digestion. Okay, so ventral vagal is a safe and social part of the nervous system. Everything works optimally in that state. Meaning your brain does its best thinkering. The heart and lungs work appropriately. Diaphragms move. Digestion works most bestly.
Right. I know your, your listeners understand that. But if, if it's your first listen. Ventral vagal safe and social. And that's how I feel right now because I think you're fantastic. I'm so delighted to be here. I'm nerding out about my favorite nerdy things. Ah.
When we are in hyper vigilance, when we think that our safety, belonging and worth are constantly on the line. If someone doesn't like us, if someone thinks we made a wrong decision, if we made a dinner and someone goes, you know, this could use some salt and we take it personally and we globalize and we black or white? White thinking, oh my God, they hate my dinner, they hate me, I'm not a good wife. They're never going to want to come over again. They're, you know, and we spin out, which is so common. In that moment, our nervous system dysregulates, meaning it leaves ventral vagal and goes into fight or flight or dorsal right, the shutdown state and isn't able to come back into regulation. And the comeback part is really important. It's normal for our nervous systems to get freaked out by things. My God, how could you cross the street in Manhattan without a nervous system that's attuned to things that are going way too fast.
Right. Or are actually scary. But what happens when we are in chronic stress is that the nervous system loses that flexibility. Right?
Erin:
Yeah.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
It's like, you know, if you're trying to wear, at our age, you're trying to wear underwear from 8th grade. Like the elastic just doesn't give anymore.
Erin:
Yeah, yeah.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Frankly, elastic that's 30 years old is probably way better than anything made right now, but totally.
Erin:
My undies only last like a year or two these days.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Oh my God. It's 10 minutes. Right? It's wild. It's wild. But right. So it's like that stretched out elastic and it can't reclaim its shape. And that's what's happening in our nervous system. So we stayed all stretched out.
We stay all like freaked out. Erin, I have a question for you, you're running on the Serengeti. You're a gazelle, of course, and you're being chased by a lion, naturally. Obviously. Look at your beautiful hair. You're being chased by a lion. She's coming. She's, like, right on your heel.
Do you want your nervous system to send signals into your body to digest your lunch?
Erin:
Of course not.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Of course. We've got bigger fish to fry and.
Big alliance right on our tail. So bust a move. Don't just stand there. Bust a move. Right. We don't want to digest when we're freaked out. No, thank you. I don't want my brain doing calculus.
I want it doing run, run, run, run. And so form follows function in biology, right? Like, we're not meant to do anything other than survive. So what does that mean? Blood's not going to your digestion. The migrating motor complex in your small intestine. Let me get hip to, like. This is one of my favorite things. The greater omentum. As you know, Erin, is my favorite organ.
What's yours?
Erin:
I don't have a favorite organ. Let me think.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Let me get back. I gotta go. This has been fun. But. Wait, really? You don't have a favorite organ?
Erin:
A gallbladder.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Oh, that's a good one.
Erin:
Like, if I had to choose.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Well, you have to choose. It's your podcast, but I guess I'm.
Erin:
Going with the gull bladder.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Listen, I love that for you. Get that bile. Get it. Get that bile. Get that bile. I love it. Okay, listen, you eat the food. Nobody chews well, right? When digestion starts in the mouth, why don't we chew? Well, because we're stressed, because we're anxious, because we value productivity over being.
Because we're doing the somatics, not being the somatics. And so you're like snarfing a cheeseburger at the speed of light. It's dropping into your stomach where it's not broken up enough to actually be broken down. So you're not only not getting your nutrients, but that's that ball of chyme, which is what the. The smushed up thing now is, is going to sit there like a little grenade. And we wonder why we all have so much fricking heartburn eventually, because gravity and time and physics, it will move down into your digestive apparatus. The small intestine is next up, and it moves food along in the middle of your tums. Only if it's chill, because it's only when you're chill that the migrating motor complex, it's an electromagnetic pulse is actually going to pulse the muscle to move the food around.
Okay, first of all, get out of here. How freaking cool is that?
Erin:
It's very cool
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right? And then the food goes to large intestine which is uses the peristaltic wave, which is these big muscular contractions. And that only gets its enervation or nerve flow when we're chill. So when you're chronically stressed, when you're looking outside you for validation constantly, when life feels more about everyone else than about you, your body is literally not getting the signals to do one of your most basic functions, which is anabolism and catabolism and metabolism. You're not breaking food down, so you're not getting nutrients. So why are you getting sick all the time? Well, you're not getting your zinc and your C and your D because you're not absorbing, right? Why are you constipated? Or constantly have the poopies? Right. Because you're wicked stressed or 400 other possible causes. Just let me say that out loud, but on theme, likely it's the stress response. And we can talk about thyroid health, we can talk about second past detox in the liver, right? We can go on and on.
I mean this is not my work. I like to say that I am the place where the science and the woo meet because I deeply believe in plants and in spirit and in energy. Right. And in the ineffable. But I also say words like migrating motor complex because it matters for sure. And this is where it all meets to say head to toe, like hair follicles, are your heels in good shape?
Erin:
Totally
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
All stress dependent. And we can point to an endless PubMed and endless journals to evidence this a cardiac cells, lung cells. So what is the cost of continuing to live in emotional outsourcing? It is unending across our physiology and I'd say is so much of the root of 90% of the things that we actually go to medical care for.
Erin Holt:
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I am so excited to announce a new sponsor with you guys. Bon Charge. I love this brand. They make the most incredible products and the one that I've been using and love for the past six months is their red light face mask. The past few years, my rosacea and the redness on my face has gotten worse. Now you guys know the deal. Skin is an inside job. Our gut health, what we're eating really impacts the health of our skin. So we do have to support our skin internally, but it can also be supported externally as well. And that's where the Bon Charge red light face mask has come in for me. I use it about three to four times a week, 10 minutes a pop. It's super easy. I do it first thing in the morning and I have noticed less redness and even a more even skin tone. Other things that the red light mask can help with are fine lines and wrinkles, acne, eczema, sore jaw and migraines. Red light therapy is awesome. It's hugely researched. There's thousands of peer reviewed studies on it. So if you want to take advantage of red light therapy, go to boncharge.com and use the coupon code FUNK to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com and use coupon code code FUNK to save 15%.
Erin:
You know, I think that this work, at least in my experience, can happen in waves or in layers. I remember it was 2020, it was Covid. We were going on a family vacation and there was like, I just needed. We were homeschooling our kid. Like everything, like was the big pivot for business. There was a lot happening and I just was very clear on what I needed for a vacation that did not happen. And I didn't advocate for my own needs. And I also did not poop for 12 days. And I ended up in the ER because I was so backed up. And I'm like, there's a lesson here.
In the lesson. I remember recording a podcast called Good Girls Gone Bad. Because it's like, you were not, like, in order for me to vocalize, my mean, that would have put me in the category of not being a good girl. So I really had to reckon with the parts of myself that didn't feel safe vocalizing my needs. But I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not playing this game anymore. We're changing things.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right on.
Erin:
And I. I was like, you know, I thought I had figured it out, cracked the code, and then this past year, I turned 41 this year. And so now, like, Instagram is screaming at me that, like, you're in perimenopause.
The only thing that's your only salvation is via HRT and maybe a GLP1 too. And I'm like, really? Is that, like, is that really it for me? And so I just, like, dove deep into all of labs. But in. You know, what I really figured out was that, like, oh, fuck. I still have some of these codependency patterns playing out in some of my relational dynamics, and it was, like, really specific to one aspect of my life, and I had to radically change that. And guess what? All of the stress went away. All of the symptoms went away.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah.
Erin:
Perimenopause be gone. It wasn't because of what was going on in my body necessarily. Well, it was, but it was like what was going on in my life, and my relational patterns were playing out through the landscape of my body. Right, right.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I mean, at the core of who we are as human mammals is pack animals. My cat, I choose to believe that he loves me, but does he need me? Let's be real. Not so much. But every dog I've ever had, right. There's a different vibe. They're pack animals. We're pack animals. Right. We need each other. We need the. The energetic of one another. Right. Loneliness is the new smoking.
Erin:
Yeah.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right. Like, the evidence is super clear that when we are lonely, it impacts our cardiovascular wellness, our bone density. I mean, like, on and on. And listen, I enjoyed the old smoking in the 90s, so I'm not signing up for the new smoking. You know what I mean? God, the 90s and the smoking.
Erin:
I would just, like, love a day where I could, like, listen to Maggie, Maggie Mazzy, Star, like, rip a butt. Like, I would. I would, like, like, just have a hall pass.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Wow.
Erin:
To, like, a day in the 90s. Yeah. I would smoke some cigs.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I would smoke a lot of cigarettes. I think if I even took one drag, I'd probably Barf immediately and then be sick for probably a week or longer.
Erin:
Yeah, it wouldn't go well. It's very nostalgic, though.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
It is nostalgic. God, and I'd eat so much sugar. I had a live half a levain cookie at like 7pm the other day on a walk through Central Park. So, like, my glucose was being managed and I couldn't fall asleep till like, midnight because it was equivalent to cocaine in my body.
Erin:
You can't.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah.
Erin:
Drugs anymore because we can't even do sugar.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
You know? We can't. I looked at some booze too hard the other day. I was hungover for, like, six months.
Erin:
It'll get you.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
It'll get you. Don't look. You gotta put on those little blinders. Don't look.
Erin:
The loneliness thing.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Oof. You know, it's so real.
Erin:
I've talked a lot about boundaries. I think boundaries are important. I think they can be the anecdote to burnout in a lot of capacity. Like learning how to say no. Really important. And also, I'm like, have we, like, over boundaried ourselves a little bit too much to the point where, like, isolating ourselves, like, yeah. Do we need to have no contact with, like, everybody? Is it really boundary set? Like, no, I don't. I've just seen this boundary world, like, snowball, potentially out of control.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I think you're completely right. I have a episode of my podcast coming out soon about therapy speak and how it's gone. Or coach speak. I mean, it's same. Same. Like, it's gone way overboard. And, like, those memes of, like, the worst person you know is currently using therapy speak to excuse their shitty behavior is 100% true.
Erin:
Yeah.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right. And I don't know, like, I'm a huge fan of compassion and love and care and kindness. It is who I am as an animal. And I think there are times when interpersonally, we've gone way too far and, like, could just talk plainly, please. You know what I'm saying? Like, we don't have to couch everything so hard. I also, in my experience in the, like, spiritual world, have found that the more someone uses the, like, viral therapeutic words, the less earnest, the less embodied, the less real, and the more likely to stab you in the back they are.
Erin:
Give me some examples of. Of therapy speak that you're talking about.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Oh, yeah. The, like, I have to set a really hard boundary because we were gonna meet at 5 and it's 5:04, and I really like My inner child is feeling really re-traumatized because I feel like you've really disrespected my boundaries. Oh, well, I was in a cab that literally got in an accident. Like, I've been at the police station for two hours. Yeah, okay, so, like, I hear where you're coming from and like, I honor your journey, but in my journey, this is untolerable lateness.
Erin:
I'm wish you guys could see me laughing right now.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I mean, like, the human to human is all gone when we lean on that kind of speech. Right? Whereas, like, I feel like being from the last century, I'd be like, yo, I don't know why I always use Megan as an example.
Erin:
Megan getting a lot of airtime today.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I mean, she. Aren't it. For better and for worse job. God bless Megan. Let's go. Let's. Let's be. When we're from Jennifer, you know, Jennifer shows up late, and I'm like, Jen, come on, dude, this is like the sixth time you've been late.
It's. You're really pissing me off here, buddy. Oh, my God. My cab was in an accent. No, girl, don't worry about being late. Tell me everything. Are you okay? Do you need me to take you to urgent care? Can I drive you somewhere? Let's be a little more real, right? And so here's. Here's what I think is important.
I think it's a pendulum that needs to swing. So I think if you've never had a self, if you've never lived in your authenticity, if you've been neck deep in emotional outsourcing, you may need to borrow the, like therapy speak terms totally and swing into being wicked selfish. So you can experience having a self and having limits and boundaries and using borrowed phrases on index cards, which I do have my clients literally, literally write the phrase they want to say on index cards and read them.
Erin:
Sometimes I need a script.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Listen, when I'm.
Erin:
When I'm relearning patterns and behaviors again, I need a script.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
What the 90 second reel has done is it's left us at that nadir and hasn't brought us back up to the other side of the pendulum where we can speak the limit and the boundary and the. That sucked as human to human. And so it's just left us with just the, like, overly cautious, overly. The like, not real therapy words. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not. It's not embodied. That's what it comes back to.
It's not embodied. It's not your coming from Your actual soma, it's coming from your brain. And a list you memorized, which is temporarily helpful and then becomes a crutch to actually being real.
Erin:
It's making me think of a conversation I had to have with some of my girlfriends. So we've all been friends 30 years at this point. You know, like, just, like, lifelong friendships. And there was a situation that really hurt me a few years ago, and it wasn't like I was like, I gotta go set a boundary with these bitches. Like, it wasn't this big. I'm like, I have that conversation with my closest friends who have known me for, like, my whole lifetime, basically, and let them know that they hurt me, because they don't know that. And if I were on the receiving end of this, I would expect a close friend to let me know that what I did was hurtful. And it's like we engage in dialogue.
Was it uncomfortable for everybody at the table? Yeah, it was. Did we all, like, learn and grow from it and move on? Yeah, we did. And it's like, sometimes it's just a conversation. And I've also realized that sometimes setting boundaries is, like, hard work. And not everybody is worthy of, like, setting a hard boundary. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes you can just, like, disengage without having to, like, muster up the boundary conversation.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Right. And if you need to have the boundary conversation for your own growth, call your coach, call your therapist, call your counselor, call someone who's not talk to my cat. Weight is endlessly available for these conversations. Do you know what I mean? Because sometimes we need to, like, Lindsay, what you did, and we need to hear ourselves saying it out loud, because that's how brains experience growth. But you. Yeah, you don't have to, like, make it Lindsay's to carry always.
Erin:
Totally. Right. Yeah. This is, like, your journey. There's. There is a responsibility to this healing work, you know, self responsibility. We have to take responsibility for our own emotional health versus outsourcing that to somebody else.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
So true. And I think this is one of the first things I do with my clients. I do this really deep inquiry work around our own hurt story. So what's like, the narrative of your hurt? For me for so long, it was that I'm the problem, that I'm the one who messes up. And so I was in an abusive marriage where they 100% capitalized on that. And I was always the named patient. I was always the problem. It was always on me. All the gaslighting was around how it was me. It was me. It was me. It was me.
Erin:
And you're like, I'm available for this.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Like, I will take this on 100%. It is me.
Erin:
Right.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Which is how I stayed stuck in it for so many years. Because I was like, well, they must be right. And so what's really important is to understand what your story is. Like, where is your brain going to go? Is your brain going to go to. Wasn't me. I take no responsibility. Then be aware of that. And then maybe your pendulum swing is to practice taking way more responsibility.
And mine was to be like, actually, no, I didn't say that. I actually was writing down what I said and what you said verbatim. And I didn't say that. Here it is.
Erin:
It's tricky when there's proof of those conversations.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Tricky when you're a jerk and people are, you know, trained to document. It's true.
Erin:
Yeah.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
So I think it really becomes, like, how to not fall into either staying in emotional outsourcing or the therapy speak trap is to know yourself. So again, it's not doing the somatics, it's being somatically present. Who are you? What was your ouchie from childhood? What's your story about? What's wrong with you? What's bad about, like, what's your story? Nobody loves me. Nobody helps me. No. Or are you living in entitlement? Right. So like, my abusive ex came from opulent wealth, their words, not mine, and was living in all this entitlement that led them to. They were never responsible for anything, Ever, ever. They were always the victim. So when you know that about yourself, you can be on to you and you can have that awareness. Oh, I'm doing that thing again. I'm acting out this core pattern, this core story about myself and the world.
Erin:
Right, right, right. You have to be aware of the patterns before they can ever be changed.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah, exactly. It's some of the most important work is that inquiry work.
Erin:
Yeah.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
What's my story? What am I believing? That doesn't serve me.
Erin:
I really like thinking about it as that pendulum. It's almost like a spectrum and you have to, like, know where you're at. And sometimes you have to do that full pendulum swing. You know, it's like, you know when. If you grew up with eating disorders, sometimes you have to go full tilt. Shaboogie, anti diet culture. All the way.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
All the way.
Erin:
You're gonna. Yeah. Settle some. Somewhere.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Somewhere in the middle. Somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Erin:
All right, my dear, this has been awesome. We're at the hour mark. I want to be respectful of your time.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
I know quick.
Erin:
I know when you're having fun, when.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
You'Re having fun, when you're in Ventrovagle. That's it. So quick. That's what it is.
Erin
So End Emotional Outsourcing is the book.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
That is it.
Erin:
It's available now at the time of this recording. You guys will link it up in the show notes. Get your hands on the book. Like after listening to this. It's a must read. It's also beautiful. It's very colorful, pizzazzy. I love it.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
She's so pretty. Do you know how hard I have had to fight to get this cover?
Erin:
Why do they want to make it boring where, like, you're like, do you not know me? Do you not understand?
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Some of the original mockups included all gray with two vases with like tears or raindrops coming from like the top of it, like the sky. And one had a sad flower and next to it was a happy flower. I wish I was kidding. I wish I was kidding about how hard I had to fight to get this cover. But hey, I'm still doing all kinds of amazing thank you presents because as a first time author, when people buy the book, especially when you buy multiple copies, it really tells the publisher we want this new feminist framework, especially in this day and age. So if you, you want a book like this in your public library and you can afford to buy it, please buy it.
Erin:
Oh, I. I'm gonna go do that right now. I love that idea.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah, it really sends the message. And so folks who buy one copy, we have beautiful gifts for you five to nine. We have even more gifts if you buy over 10. There's a whole live course with me. There's a lot of gifts to say thank you because I'd make no more money, right? So like, if you buy 2,000 copies, I don't see an extra penny. It's not about that. It's about my mission, which is to help people, but especially humans socialized as women to stop outsourcing our entire freaking lives. So I really need your help. And, and the world needs your help. So please buy it, review it, share it.
Erin:
You know the holidays are coming.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Listen, right now, listen, you don't know what to get anyone this book. If that's not subtle, I don't know what is. I don't know what is. You know what I mean?
Erin:
I thought you could really use this.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Yeah, right. Not for nothing, but. Oh my God. Read this. Especially chapter two, about parenting Let me just tell you, I circled a couple things. You're gonna really, really love it. Yeah. Get it for your mother in law, your sisters in law. Get, just get it for everyone.
Erin:
Go nuts.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Just go nuts.
Erin:
Why not?
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
What else are you doing? Let's be honest. No one wants another sweater or socks or like any appliances, we don't need it. The Goodwill's full of them. You know what I'm saying?
Erin:
People buy me books.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Get a book.
Erin:
Love it.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
It is the gift that keeps on giving, truly.
Erin:
Right. And in this case, we will be recreating a ripple effect, it is true.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
That will change lives. And so you can get all your presents at my website, beatricealbina.com/book.
Erin:
Okay, we'll link it up in the show notes. Thank you. Go there. Get it.
Beatriz Victoria Albina:
Thank you.
Erin:
Thank you for being here.
Erin:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of The Funk’tional Nutrition Podcast. Please keep in mind this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be used as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment. If you got something from today's show, don't forget, subscribe, leave a review, share with a friend and keep coming back for more. Take care of you.