Episode 308: Sleepy Girl Mocktails, Minerals & HTMAs
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Listen on Spotify
Erin brings Rachel, the Lead Practitioner for Team FN and Lead Clinical Mentor of the Funk’tional Nutrition Academy, on this episode to discuss the popular TikTok and Instagram trend- The Sleepy Girl Mocktail. Surprisingly, not all trends are bad and this is one we can get behind! You’ll learn why magnesium is important, how common deficiencies are (and why!) and ways to increase your magnesium levels through supplementation and topicals. Rachel dives into the newest functional lab test we’ve introduced to our 1:1 Membership- the HTMA test, and shares how it can be an effective and affordable way to find lifestyle and nutrition recommendations for her patients. This is a great episode for both clients and practitioners alike!
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In this episode:
What is a Sleepy Girl Mocktail? [3:11]
What causes low magnesium, why it’s so common, and how to get magnesium through food sources [9:27]
Different chelates of magnesium and the different impact and benefits they have [16:01]
Topical options for magnesium [20:44]
What is HTMA testing & why we’ve added it to our practice [25:08]
How the HTMA test can be an affordable and effective option for lifestyle and nutrition recommendations [33:03]
Resources mentioned:
Funk’tional Nutrition Academy™
1:1 Funk’tional Nutrition Membership
Ned Natural Remedies (get 15% off your order with cod
LMNT Electrolyte Replenishing powder (Use code FUNK get a free sample pack with any purchase!)
Qualia Senolytic (get up to 50% off and an extra 15% off your first purchase with link + code FUNKS)
Organifi supplement powder (save 20% on your order with code FUNK)
Learn more about Functional Nutrition & Gut Health
Related episodes:
306: Lab Interpretation Case Study: OAT, HTMA & DUTCH Test
204: Cortisol, Blood Sugar & Improving Your Sleep Hygiene
209: Health & Environmental Effects of CBD & Full Spectrum Hemp
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Erin Holt [00:00:02]:
I'm Erin Holt, and this is the Funk'tional Nutrition Podcast, where we lean into intuitive functional medicine. We look at how diet, our environment, our emotions, and our beliefs all affect our physical health. This podcast is your full bodied, well rounded resource. I've got over a decade of clinical experience, and because of that, I've got a major bone to pick with diet culture, and the conventional healthcare model.
Erin Holt [00:00:26]:
They're both failing so many of us. But functional medicine isn't the panacea that it’s made out to be, either. We've got some work to do, and that's why creating a new model is my life's work. I believe in the ripple effect. So I founded the Funk'tional Nutrition Academy. A school and mentorship for practitioners who want to do the same.
Erin Holt [00:00:45]:
This show is for you if you're looking for new ways of thinking about your health and you're ready to be an active participant in your own healing, please keep in mind this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be used as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment.
Erin Holt [00:01:00]:
I would love for you to follow the show, rate review, and share because you never know whose life you might change and of course, keep coming back for more.
Erin Holt [00:01:12]:
Okay, friends, I'm here with Rachel, our Lead Practitioner here at The Funk'tional Nutritionist and our Lead Clinical Mentor of the Funk'tional Nutrition Academy. Hi, Rachel.
Rachel Mistry [00:01:22]:
Hey, Erin.
Erin Holt [00:01:24]:
So today we're going to get into one of the trending things on social media, sleepy girl mocktail. We've been asked about it a bunch, so we want to chat about it, what it is and why it's trending. And, like, this is a perfect example of how not all trends are bad, because we're kind of into this whole trend. We think it's kind of a good take. So we'll talk about what it is, and, you know, if you're considering trying it out, here's why. And then we also really want to do a kind of like, a high level conversation about magnesium. And we want you to walk away from this conversation, being able to understand if, like, maybe magnesium is something that you should be supplementing with, like, how to tell if you are low, the importance of it, why you should be supplementing with it, uh, what our favorite magnesium supplements are. I know, Rachel.
Erin Holt [00:02:16]:
Um, this is, like, our top recommended supplement. Like, if I. For me, I'm like, if there was one, if somebody was like, there's one supplement that you could take personally and recommend to people, it would be magnesium for me. And I know that you feel the same. And then we're actually going to get into HTMAs, which we've never discussed on the show before, ever. So this is Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis, and this is something that Rachel's been doing, um, a lot in our practice. So we'll talk about what all of that is and really exciting stuff we've added to the FNA curriculum. The practitioner training now includes HTMA.
Erin Holt [00:02:55]:
Nope. HTMA analysis. We do modules on minerals, and why all that is so important and why you could be including it in your practice. So we're gonna get into all of that today. Are you ready, Rachel?
Rachel Mistry [00:03:08]:
I'm ready.
Erin Holt [00:03:09]:
Awesome. Okay, so, sleepy girl mocktail, let's. Let's take it from the top. What the heck is it?
Rachel Mistry [00:03:16]:
So, this is a trend. It's been all over my Instagram and TikTok, honestly, for the last, like, four or five months, and it's basically a beverage. A lot of people will prepare it in, like, a fun wine glass or a cute, cute cocktail cup, but it's a blend of magnesium powder, tart cherry juice, and a carbonated beverage. And the first two ingredients. So the magnesium powder and the tart cherry juice are the active components or the components of this beverage that have those health benefits. And people will say, like, oh, my gosh, I sleep so much better. It's my wind down routine. People are, like, swearing by this beverage.
Rachel Mistry [00:03:51]:
And so thinking about these first two ingredients, tart cherries, they can be a natural source of melatonin and magnesium, we know has a ton of benefits. So we'll get into that. One thing that I think is worth noting is that tart cherries, one cup of juice, has, like, 0.025 milligrams of melatonin. So the dose of melatonin that you're getting in this juice is really not a ton, because if I'm recommending melatonin supplementation for our patients, I'm doing at least 0.5 milligrams for, like, a biological therapeutic dose, up to three milligrams. So the amount of melatonin you're getting in a cup of juice is, like, what? Like, 5% of what we would usually recommend from a supplement perspective. So kind of crazy there, but, yeah.
Erin Holt [00:04:41]:
Well, I mean, I think that's, like, there's something to be said for ritual, you know? And I'm thinking of a client that I'm working with right now who just has. Just doesn't sleep. She's not a sleeper. She's always struggled with insomnia and the, you know, we've. We've done all the labs on her and there's nothing, like, chemically off. So for me, I'm not like, I'm going to, not going to swoop in. We've tried to do a melatonin reset like that. That didn't really work for her.
Erin Holt [00:05:05]:
And so I, I'm not swooping in to try to give her more supplements or to try to, like, give her things to help her sleep. I'm like, why don't we work on your sleep hygiene? Because she had never done that before. So we're talking about, like, winding down the lights at night and not starting projects, not getting into a work project, not opening up the laptop, not checking emails, not starting, like, I'm going to clean out my closet now at 09:30 p.m., but, like, doing more rituals to see signal to her body and her energy like, it is time to wind down. So I think there's a lot to be said for rituals and I also think there's a lot to be said for the placebo effect, too. If there's like, something that signals to your body, to your brain, to your mind, that like, oh, this is the thing that I do before I start to wind down, before I sleep. Like, that's a, that's a real effect. So, you know, maybe it's the melatonin, the small, tiny little bit of melatonin in the tart cherry juice.
Erin Holt [00:06:00]:
Maybe it's a ritual. Maybe it's the magnesium. Maybe it's like all of the above.
Rachel Mistry [00:06:05]:
The vibe.
Erin Holt [00:06:06]:
The vibe. So, okay, magnesium. Why would this potentially help somebody wind down? Let's do a little like, overview. Spotlight on magnesium. For those who don't know why it's so important.
Rachel Mistry [00:06:18]:
So magnesium, I call it like the miracle mineral. Like you said, it's definitely my most recommended supplement. Magnesium promotes muscle relaxation. And so with that muscle relaxation, people can feel like they're decompressing, like they're unwinding. And as a result, it can help to improve sleep. Magnesium also can help to reduce stress. And if you're also, this is a little bit of a sidebar, but if you're someone who is struggling with just ongoing vitamin D deficiency and vitamin D won't move, even with supplementation, you might want to consider magnesium. Because magnesium activates vitamin D.
Rachel Mistry [00:06:57]:
It helps it go where it belongs, essentially. So I love magnesium. I take it personally, daily, nightly.
Erin Holt [00:07:04]:
Yeah, it's definitely one of those, like, those feel good things that you can notice a difference when you take it. What would be some signs or symptoms that somebody is low in magnesium. So for somebody to be like, oh, maybe I should consider supplementing with this.
Rachel Mistry [00:07:18]:
Um, biggies that stand out to me are PMS. So PMS and also menstrual cramping is a biggie, because when we think about magnesium in that it reduces anxiety. That's how it can help PMS. But magnesium, because it promotes that muscle relaxation, it can also really help with menstrual cramping. So I recommend that women take it all month long. But for some of my gals that I work with, I'll actually recommend that they increase their magnesium dose a few days leading up to their bleed and while on their bleed. And that can really, really help with the intensity, challenging or difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep, anxiety, and then also palpitations can be a sign of magnesium deficiency.
Rachel Mistry [00:08:00]:
Sometimes constipation. Constipation can be caused by so many things, but magnesium can definitely help. And then chocolate cravings, these also can be caused by so many different things, but if you crave chocolate, like, maybe you need some magnesium. Again, it's important to note, like, this is not an extensive list, and these symptoms could also be due to factors other than a magnesium deficiency. But it doesn't, it doesn't hurt to try.
Erin Holt [00:08:25]:
It doesn't hurt to try. And, you know, some other things that I think of, like, red flags for low magnesium. If somebody struggles with ongoing headaches. And again, to Rachel's point, like, a lot of things can cause headaches, but if you're dealing with, like, kind of a cluster of some of these symptoms or signs like magnesium can't hurt. Um, headaches and migraines, um, irritability or jumpiness, this kind of goes a little bit with the anxiety and, like, the heart palps, but, um, loud noises, like, if you, like, jump at loud noises or you feel just like, like a little jittery or jumpy, that can sometimes be a magnesium. You know, like, magnesium just calms everything down. That's one of the ways that I, I think about it. It's like, just kind of has, like, a calming, soothing effect on, on everything.
Erin Holt [00:09:08]:
So if you're just somebody who's, like, typically on edge, high anxiety, high alert, uh, magnesium could help with that. And, you know, when we're talking about this list, I feel like, what, probably, like 70 or 80% of people listening could probably categorize themselves as one of these things. But that's really just because low magnesium is incredibly, incredibly common. We, we see a lot of people with low magnesium. So what could be some causes of that. Why is it so, um, I want to say popular, but why is it so commonplace?
Rachel Mistry [00:09:38]:
Um, well, our soil is way more depleted than what it was 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago. Um, so as a result, a lot of us just have a lot lower of an intake. Um, the foods that are rich in magnesium, people aren't always eating a ton of them, so we'll get into those food sources as well. But, um, stress is stress and inflammation. So when I say stress, it could be mental and emotional stress, kind of HPA axis dysfunction, kind of like running in that fight or flight state. But also a lot of inflammation can cause you to burn through your magnesium really rapidly. And that's actually one of the things that we take a look at on an HTMA. If you drink a lot, if you sweat a lot, if you have drink.
Erin Holt [00:10:21]:
A lot, do you mean like booze, alcohol.
Rachel Mistry [00:10:23]:
Okay. If you drink a lot of alcohol, if you are sweating a ton, we lose minerals through our sweat. Um, and if you have digestive issues, you might not be properly absorbing your magnesium as well.
Erin Holt [00:10:35]:
Yeah, I think, I really think, like, the biggest thing is there's, there's a lot of nutrients we just burn through when we're stressed. Like, we're just like, turning and burning through them. And magnesium is like one of the, like, the top dogs with that. Um, but just, you know, we have to look at the way that we grow our food, and it is not okay, and it's not the point of this conversation, but, like, it trickles down to us. Our mass ag impacts everything. Like, we are the land, we are the soil. So if our soil is under, uh, nutriented. That's not a word.
Erin Holt [00:11:10]:
Under has less nutrients in it, then our bodies are going to have less nutrients. Like, that's just how it works. That's how the cookie crumbles. In monoculture, we're just, we just don't care take our soil in the way that we really should for overall health of the land and of our bodies. And so we're going to see downstream effects of that. And one of those main downstream effects is, like, we're just low in, um, in magnesium because our food is super low in magnesium. So what would, let's talk about food sources, just because we kind of hit on that.
Erin Holt [00:11:40]:
What are some food sources of magnesium?
Rachel Mistry [00:11:42]:
So, dark chocolate, and I heard this on a podcast a long time ago, but, you know, around Valentine's Day, how they do chocolate hearts, that's like the symbol of Valentine's Day. So organ meats are a really good source of magnesium as well, and so is chocolate. And so that's why, like, the chocolate heart came to be, like, magnesium.
Erin Holt [00:12:05]:
Oh, no way.
Rachel Mistry [00:12:06]:
And dark chocolate are a great source of magnesium. Um, can you fact check that? I heard it from, um, a podcast, like, ten years ago. I'm blanking on the name, but I can find it. I can.
Erin Holt [00:12:16]:
I like it. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna use that as truth now.
Rachel Mistry [00:12:20]:
So, dark chocolate is a great source of magnesium. Um, avocados are cashews, legumes, um, pumpkin seeds, flax seeds, almonds. Um, so some of my favorite ways to incorporate more, more magnesium into my diet is I'll add, like, cashew butter or flax seeds to my smoothies. I add pumpkin seeds to salads. I snack on almonds where I can, and, like, dark chocolate for dessert.
Erin Holt [00:12:44]:
Always, always, never not. We do a lot of cacao powder. Navitas Natural, I really like that brand. Cacao nibs. I love throwing them into smoothies, and, like, I put them in at the end. So let's say I'll do like. Cause I love this one. I do this one a lot. So, the frozen cauliflower rice with some type of milk, um, hemp seeds.
Erin Holt [00:13:04]:
Hemp seeds are another great source of magnesium, by the way. Um, and then, like, maybe some peanut butter, if I'm feeling kind of frisky. And then protein powder that's, like, vanilla flavored and a little bit of salt. And then I blend all of that up. And then at the end, I'll throw in the nibs so they stay, like, a little crunchy. You know, it's kind of like, like, almost like chocolate chip milkshake type of vibe. I love that. Um, and then we just, like, use a lot of.
Erin Holt [00:13:29]:
We do eat dark chocolate a lot, but we're using the cacao powder and the nibs. Like, we, we go through those pretty quickly. So that's just another way to include more magnesium rich foods into your diet, which is a strong play. But we also have to understand that even that the food sources that are supposed to be rich in magnesium are less rich in magnesium because of farming practices, because of the soil. So that's why supplementation can be so important for so many of us, even those of us who are eating a whole foods diet and including some of these food sources of magnesium. Like, I would say that, like, most of us need, like, a little extra. A little extra lift.
Erin Holt [00:16:01]:
So let's talk about there's different chelates of magnesium, and that just means what it's bonded to. And the different chelates can have some different impact and benefits. And I don't want people to overthink this, but just understand that there are different types of magnesium. So can you speak into that a little bit?
Rachel Mistry [00:16:22]:
Yes. So I would say the most common form that I use in practice is magnesium glycinate. I like that form for sleep support, relaxation, and general mood support, usually. So magnesium is a really big mineral that's important to keep in mind. And so if you look at how many milligrams are found in, like, a multivitamin, it's not much at all. And if we're dealing with someone who has a magnesium deficiency, we might want to do. We might want to be starting with three times their body weight for repletion, which is kind of a heavy dose. That might involve taking a lot of different, a large volume of capsules.
Rachel Mistry [00:17:01]:
So I know you're a fan of powders as well. We'll talk about that, too. But magnesium glycinate. Magnesium threonate is the form that can cross the blood brain barrier. And so that can be really, really helpful for anxiety as well. It can be really calming. It's helped some of my patients with issues with focusing. Um, I like magnesium.
Erin Holt [00:17:22]:
That one's a little bit more expensive, usually, I find.
Rachel Mistry [00:17:25]:
Definitely, um, magnesium malate I'll use for my patients. I use it a little bit less frequently, more than anything, but it can be helpful for low energy. And I don't use these a ton in practice. But there's magnesium oxide and or citrate. They're more used for constipation. They have a little bit more of a laxative effect. Like, they pull water into the bowels and they'll clear you out.
Erin Holt [00:17:48]:
They will. So magnesium oxide is like, that's the MagO2. You can get it at most health food stores, like Whole Foods. It's pretty easy to find, and it comes as a white powder. And that will, you'll poop your pants with that one. All right. Like, that one has a very strong laxative effect. And I think second to that is magnesium citrate, which I actually really love a mag citrate for constipation.
Erin Holt [00:18:12]:
Um, one of the things that I used to recommend in my practice in the early days was magnesium Calm. Just because it's so easy to find, you can get it anywhere. You don't need, like, a full script account. Um, and that used to be magnesium citrate, and now it's magnesium carbonate, which is just a less expensive, uh, like, cheaper version. So I don't really recommend that product anymore. Magnesium Calm, unfortunately. But I do love a powder. And for all of the reasons that Rachel said, if you want to take higher doses, you're taking, like, a lot of caps of magnesium.
Erin Holt [00:18:47]:
And those caps are big. And I usually like to take it at night. Cause it is part of my wind down ritual. And, um, I just don't like taking a lot of pills at night. Cause I feel like they, like, kind of, like, get stuck in my chest and, like, repeat on me. So I don't like taking a lot of big caps at night. But, uh, the thing that I have found with a lot of magnesium powders is that they have citric acid in them. So a lot of them are mag citrate, and even the non mag citrate formulas will have some citric acid.
Erin Holt [00:19:18]:
And I just find that the magnesium powders tend to be very acidic and cause a lot of heartburn for me. So the one that I always use, it's absolutely my favorite. It is. They are a sponsor of the show, but it's Ned's Mello. And this has three different chelates of magnesium. It has the bis glycinate, it has some mag citrate, and then also has magnesium lactate gluconate. So there's three different chelates, and it kind of hits all the different reasons you would be taking magnesium. Um, it also has gaba and l theanine.
Erin Holt [00:19:50]:
So it does help to relax and focus. Um, or it helps to relax your body, but it could also help to focus. Some people like to take it first thing in the morning. I had the, uh, the founder of the company, and he was like, I always take Mello first thing in the morning for focus. I was like, oh, interesting. I always think of magnesium as like an, like, I'm going to wind my day down, but this would be a great thing to use for this would be a great thing to use for a sleepy girl mocktail, because you could add a little bit of the tart cherry. You could use this as your magnesium. You could put a splash of, like, seltzer water on it, and you're good to go.
Erin Holt [00:20:24]:
Lavender berry is my favorite. It's a beautiful color. It's like the color of your nails, Rachel. It's like a pretty purple. Yeah, I know. And I just like the taste of it. My mom just came to visit, and she had the lemon variety that was like her favorite, but I really like the lavender berry, so you can check that out.
Erin Holt [00:20:40]:
That is my favorite way to get magnesium in for all of those reasons. And then there's also topical, so you can take it internally, and then you could also put it on your body. Are you a fan of topical magnesium?
Rachel Mistry [00:20:52]:
I love the topical magnesium, especially because what I've seen in practice for some people is, or just someone might be listening to this podcast, and they just might want to start magnesium supplementation. And what happens for some people is they begin taking magnesium, and they're like, I thought it was supposed to be good for me. It's supposed to help with my sleep. It's supposed to help with my anxiety. Some people take magnesium and they actually feel worse. And oftentimes they need to start lower and even slower. And that's where topical forms can come in. Usually what we see for these individuals is they have low magnesium, low sodium, and potassium.
Rachel Mistry [00:21:26]:
So sometimes what we have to do is spend some time optimizing their other minerals before we bring in oral forms of magnesium. So if you try magnesium and you feel worse, don't freak out. It just means you need more of your other minerals. But the topical forms that I like are epsom soaks or epsom salts. You can do this in a bath, or you can even do, like, a little foot soak. So what I've been telling a lot of my patients to do recently, even if you just have, like, cramping, even if you're just looking to support your detox pathways a little bit more, is take a shower in a shower that's attached to a bath and stop the bath. Like, plug the bath up, fill the bath with a couple inches of water, and add the epsom salts to that, swish it around, let it dissolve, and then take your shower with your feet in that water. So that way you're not, like, fixing a whole footbath and, like, sitting on the couch and dealing with the mess.
Rachel Mistry [00:22:14]:
You just, like, stop the tub up. You have the foot bath going while you shower. People have really been liking that. I even have a patient with plantar fasciitis, and we've been having her do that, and she actually feels like that's also really helping, which is nice because it's, like, relaxing and calming for her, too.
Erin Holt [00:22:28]:
I love an epsom salt soak. Like, I'll put in a half of a bag. Like, just, like, dump it in. Like, high, high, high, high dose. And I just, I get. I feel so relaxed when I come out of that tub. It's like, my favorite. But, you know, some of our clients don't have, don't have tubs.
Erin Holt [00:22:45]:
Yeah, I like one of my clients. Like, she's like, I do not have a bathtub in my house. And so in that scenario, getting a bucket and doing a foot soap could be helpful, but it is, like, a little bit of a mess.
Rachel Mistry [00:22:55]:
Yeah, there is. I've even told people, like, go get a Home Depot bucket and stick your feet in it because they're good and you get your calves, too. But there's also lotions, and there are oils as well. Like, there's a lot of great brands, like, Trace. It's either Trace Elements or Trace Minerals. They make an oil, they make lotions. It's great.
Rachel Mistry [00:23:12]:
I even use it sometimes if I'm really sore after the gym, I'll, like, use a topical as well. So I love that.
Erin Holt [00:23:17]:
I always found that the oils, I've never tried a lotion, but the oils made me feel so itchy.
Rachel Mistry [00:23:22]:
Oh, interesting. Some people do have that. I have. I have heard of that. So, um. Yeah.
Erin Holt [00:23:29]:
All right, so those are all some things you can do. Now what about, do you like to test for magnesium? Are you just going based off of, like, signs or symptoms and, like, can't really hurt to try, or you, like, let's get you tested to see if you're low in magnesium?
Rachel Mistry [00:23:42]:
Both. Honestly, like, my friends will joke. Like, we went on a road trip, and I had my magnesium supplements with me. I'm like, you guys need to try this. And my friends, they just took it. They're. They're like, I'll take whatever you give me. And they tried it, and they were like, oh, I slept so good.
Rachel Mistry [00:23:56]:
I had so many amazing dreams. So, like, there's no risk in just trying. But I also like to be very data driven. If we're dealing with, like, symptoms and, like, we have attention or concern about something going on in our health, I think testing, like, let's get the data. So I do blood testing in practice. I'll do serum testing on, like, a comprehensive blood work panel. And I love to do red blood cell magnesium. We actually want to see what's going on inside of the cell. So I do that.
Rachel Mistry [00:24:24]:
And also HTMAs. So, HTMAs are a hair sample, and that also looks at, like, how is your body using your minerals? What is it laying down in the tissues as a result? So those are kind of probably my go to ways of assessing for it.
Erin Holt [00:24:41]:
I'm thinking of. I think I told you this story, but I went out to dinner with a friend of your, of one of your patients who's working with you, and she'd never done, like, functional stuff before, so she's like, what the hell? I start working with Rachel. I have to cut my hair to test. I have to pee on, like, paper to test, and I have to poop in a bucket to test. Like, why? What are you guys doing over there? So let's. Let's talk about why we're asking people to cut their hair. What the heck is an HTMA? And why did you advocate for us to start adding this to our practice?
Rachel Mistry [00:25:20]:
So I wanted to start using this in practice because I wanted to get a deeper dive, really looking at, like, learning more about patients copper and zinc status in their body. But after running more of these labs, just kind of realizing that an HTMA can be a very useful tool. And I really think it's especially useful. I mean, I want to clarify. I think an argument could be made for most people to run an HTMA, because it's pretty non invasive, it's relatively affordable, but it's really, really helpful for patients who are dealing with hormonal issues, issues with their energy or mood, thyroid, maybe even, like, recurring gut issues or just, like, things, recurring symptoms where treatment is maybe not moving the needle. So the way that I think about an HTMA is it is a hair sample, and it's basically used to assess how your body has been dealing and coping with stress for the last three months. So you are submitting about an inch and a half of your hair.
Rachel Mistry [00:26:17]:
Um, I should clarify, it's a little more than a teaspoon of hair that you're submitting to the lab. And we say your hair grows about half an inch a month. So that's why we're saying we're looking at what's been going on for the last three months. And I love the HTMAs because it gives us clues and hints into how are the various systems in your body working based on levels of your minerals and also some of the ratios, if that makes sense so far.
Erin Holt [00:26:47]:
It does make sense so far. And, like, you know, um, Rachel is recording a lot of modules on training and, like, how to interpret these labs. And I was so fascinated by it, because when you look at the lab, it doesn't. When you look at, like, the actual data, like, the graph that it prints out, it's like, it's not as straightforward as you would think. It's like, you could see high levels, and you're like, oh, they're super high in this. But, like, that's not really. You're more looking at, like, overall picture, overall ratios. Like, what does this mean? What's the information almost, like, behind the data? And what.
Erin Holt [00:27:24]:
So, what, when we're talking about different minerals that this lab is looking at, what specific minerals?
Rachel Mistry [00:27:32]:
So it looks at a ton of minerals. The big four that it looks at are sodium, potassium, magnesium, and calcium. And using this as an example, we know that calcium, one of the roles that calcium has in our body, is helping our pancreas make insulin. So if somebody has low calcium levels, it can make it difficult to produce enough insulin and then lead to those blood sugar swings. Someone might be more prone to riding that blood sugar roller coaster throughout the day. And magnesium, like we mentioned, it plays a ton of roles in our body, but it also helps our body use insulin appropriately. So one of the ratios that the HTMA looks at, not only the levels, but it's looking at calcium to magnesium. And this is considered the blood sugar ratio.
Rachel Mistry [00:28:15]:
So if this ratio is high, that might mean that you have a relative magnesium deficiency. Your magnesium is low in relation to calcium, which would mean you're at greater risk for blood sugar swings, greater risk for hypoglycemia. And so, like you shared, I think there's a lot of nuances to interpreting the HTMA as well. And really, simply put, I think about the HTMA in that it's looking at what's going on inside of our cells, what's going on in our tissues, and what our bodies are doing with those minerals as opposed to blood work. I guess serum lab draw might be looking at what's going on outside of the cell. What are nutrient levels floating around in circulation, not inside your cells?
Erin Holt [00:29:00]:
Basically, it's just giving us different information and, like, maybe even like, more actionable information. I would say.
Erin Holt [00:31:04]:
Okay, I'm curious now, because you've been running these for a while on a fair amount of your patients. Are you noticing any clinical trends in relation to magnesium or just, like, any mineral?
Rachel Mistry [00:31:17]:
What's been really cool is that for the patients in the one to one membership, rarely are we just running an HTMA. So it's really cool to compare some of the results that I'm getting on an HTMA to some of their other lab work. And I see a lot of overlap between what's going on in HTMA, for instance, and, like, a DUTCH test. So the DUTCH test, one of the big things that we look at is adrenal function. How much cortisol and DHEA are you producing? And so it's really cool because on the HTMA, we can. And I want to clarify, it's not a saliva cortisol test, right? It's what's going on in your hair. But there are patterns that we can see that are associated with the DUTCH test. So when we see really high levels of sodium on an HDMA, we say that this correlates with that, like, acute alert stage of the stress response, that beginning stress response, there's most likely a lot of cortisol being produced.
Rachel Mistry [00:32:11]:
This is your stress hormone. This increases the hormone aldosterone, which increases sodium. That's why we see high sodium in that acute stage of stress. The next pattern when we think about adrenal dysfunction, is that adaptation stage. Your body is getting used to that stress. It's trying to compensate, and we'll start to see, actually, potassium spike. Potassium will be high, much higher than sodium. Then the third stage, where we think about sometimes this gets called adrenal fatigue, but really just more of that, like, depleted stage, burnout stage.
Rachel Mistry [00:32:45]:
That's when we see usually lower levels of both sodium and potassium. And this has been really validating for a lot of my patients as well. Even when we're not doing a DUTCHt test, they're like, this aligns with how I'm feeling. But it's really, really interesting to see the two tests really align, the HTMA and the DUTCH test as well.
Erin Holt [00:33:03]:
Can I ask you a question? Just like. Like, clinically speaking or, like, practitioner talk here? What do you, you know? So the DUTCH test that we run is like, what, like $400 a pop? Like, you know, and we don't upcharge. Like, that's just like, what, what it costs us. And then how much is the HTMA?
Rachel Mistry [00:33:22]:
Like 70, 75. And then, like, a little bit for shipping, maybe. So it's pretty affordable, a quarter of the cost.
Erin Holt [00:33:30]:
Do you find that it's redundant, like, running both of the labs? Like, I guess another way to ask this is if you were to just run an HTMA, would you feel that that is enough information to confidently treat somebody from a hormone picture, or do you really like having both of the labs together?
Rachel Mistry [00:33:51]:
I think that's a great question, and I think I would confidently. I could confidently treat someone from, like, an adrenal perspective based on an HTMA, but not as much what's going on with their sex hormones, because that's the perk of running a DUTCH as well, as you see, sex hormone metabolites. And that can be really helpful information that we don't glean from an HTMA. But I can share with you a lot of the nutrition and a lot of the lifestyle recommendations. There's a lot of overlap there with the HTMA and the adrenal profile as well.
Erin Holt [00:34:20]:
That's so interesting. What other. And just like, for, like, practitioners listening to kind of, like, consider, especially for somebody coming that, like, maybe doesn't have, like, a huge budget for functional labs too. Um, what other trends are you seeing, if anything?
Rachel Mistry [00:34:37]:
We know that there's a big connection between minerals and digestive function as well. So sodium and potassium are a big part of what make up stomach acid, along with zinc. So people who have low levels of these minerals are more likely to have bloating and glass and gas, maybe poor protein intolerant, poor protein tolerance, and then potassium. With low potassium, we can also see more constipation, because potassium plays a big role in gut motility. And then potassium also plays a big role in sensitizing our cells to the thyroid hormone. So it really influences T3 uptake, how our cells are able to get the active thyroid hormone into it. So if someone has thyroid issues or low energy, or maybe their thyroid hormones are looking really good and it doesn't make sense, like, they're presenting, like, someone who has hypothyroidism, but their labs look normal. That's where sometimes an HTMA can help to uncover, like, cellular hypothyroidism.
Rachel Mistry [00:35:38]:
They have enough hormone, it's just not inside of the cells. So potassium can really influence that.
Erin Holt [00:35:45]:
Let me, let me ask you another question. So do you find that. So I'm asking a lot of these questions, like, in real time, because I haven't run any of these yet. Right. Do you find that this gives you actionable steps, like running an HTMA? You're like, oh, based on this data, I can give some real actionable steps for clients. And my part two to that Q is, is it always just supplementing with more minerals? Is that like, always the outcome from these labs?
Rachel Mistry [00:36:19]:
No. Great question. I think it's a lot of, and it depends what's going on. Everyone's test is definitely different, but I can share with you, there's always a conversation about nutrition and food that can help to support this. Sometimes what I'm chatting with patients about is rather than doing supplementation, even, we're talking about mineral mocktails, or like, how you can make like a DIY version of some of the ways to get minerals in your diet through beverages and through nutrition. Sometimes HTMAs might indicate that more testing is needed. So an example of this might be there's a heavy metals portion to the HTMA, and it looks at things like mercury and uranium and other heavy metals, and the levels are, like, low, not detected, moderate, and like really, really high. So if someone's metal levels are really, really high, that means that there is an acute exposure and we kind of need to investigate where is that coming from? If someone, sometimes people get their HTMA test results back and the heavy metals are non existent, it's like completely negative.
Rachel Mistry [00:37:27]:
People celebrate that. And in a weird way, we actually, we should be metabolizing and processing and detoxing heavy metals through our hair. That's like a natural process of detoxification. So if your heavy metals on an HTMA are non existent, that's actually a sign that your liver needs more love and you probably need more detoxification support. It doesn't mean we need to go in with a binder, but, like, how can we give your liver some TLC and more of those detox pathways? More TLC as well?
Erin Holt [00:37:54]:
No, that's interesting. And, I mean, I feel like that's kind of what I was saying, too. It's like, it's not always like a super straightforward lab to interpret because, like, some of the ones that you sent me, I'm like, high magnesium? What the heck? That's kind of crazy. But could you speak into if somebody saw high magnesium, what might that actually be?
Rachel Mistry [00:38:11]:
So it's a sign that you actually have a high usage of magnesium. We call it a high burn rate, that this person might be really stressed and or inflamed. Maybe your adrenals have a lot of demand on them right now. And then when we see low magnesium, that is associated with more longer term stress, more burnout, more depletion. And like I mentioned, should not. Before we bring in oral supplementation, too.
Erin Holt [00:38:44]:
And you had mentioned you just cut out. I think my Internet is being weird right now, but did you say anything about copper? Because I was going to ask you about copper.
Rachel Mistry [00:38:53]:
So copper, and mainly copper, is the copper to zinc ratio is what I wanted to learn more about HTMAs. And so copper has a ton of natural antifungal properties. Copper is really involved in the iron recycling system. And so it's really cool to run HTMA testing on these women where iron status has just been wonky for a while, or they're presenting with more estrogen dominant symptoms and we want to take a look at their copper. I mean, full transparency. Now that I've done more education on HTMAs, there's a lot of women who I've worked with in the past where I'm like, it would have been so cool to get an HTMAs on them previously.
Erin Holt [00:39:33]:
Yeah. Especially for those, like, head scrap, like those iron head scratchers where you're like, this isn't, like, making a ton of sense. Like, it's not just the iron. Iron is not, like, the only mineral we should be looking at when it comes to iron stuff.
Rachel Mistry [00:39:44]:
Oh, for sure. And then one other thing that's been really interesting, too, has been copper to zinc ratios. Especially, like, I know we're in 2024 now. We're, like, post pandemic at this point in time, but so many people have been supplementing with zinc for such an extended period of time that I've been seeing sometimes really high zinc, which can be caused by other things, don't get me wrong. But, like, people's copper status and their zinc status is looking a little bit more wonky because people just take long term zinc.
Erin Holt [00:40:11]:
Oh, that's. That makes a lot of sense. So, overall, like, the. The benefits of running an HTMA, you've mentioned looking at adrenals, looking at thyroid, um, looking at detoxification, heavy metal status, that copper to zinc ratio, that copper to zinc status. So overall, like, your thumbs up, you're like, in the HTMA camp. Okay. And so that's why that was a leading question, because I already knew the answer to it. That's why.
Erin Holt [00:40:43]:
Because of this. Because Rachel has been, like, really testing this out, and we have decided to add this to FNA. So now, FNA, like I said at the start of the show, does include mineral trainings. This is something our students have been asking for a long time and we're like, look, we're not going to teach something that we don't have experience on, so let us pump the brakes and really look into this, get some appropriate training, get some extensive experience before we like, really weigh in on whether or not this is like something that we want to implement in our practice and then teach on. So we, um, Rachel has created a lot of HTMA, um, and mineral training. So, like, how to interpret those labs, because like I said, it's not straightforward, um, and the importance of minerals and how we can support our clients. Anything you want to add there?
Rachel Mistry [00:41:36]:
Yeah, and I think this is a great test for practitioners who are making a lot of nutrition and lifestyle recommendations to emphasize it's not just supplementation. I always share this with patients, like we do strategic supplementation. I make an effort, like, I do recommend supplements in practice. I'm not going to pretend like I don't, but I make an effort to condense the list as much as possible, or if I am recommending a handful, being very clear on the duration. And so that's the awesome part about the HTMA, is you're able to make nutrition and lifestyle recommendations that can be really supportive for your patients long term. And honestly, it's your nutrition and your lifestyle and your daily habits and your routines that lead to that long term health as well.
Erin Holt [00:42:18]:
Yeah. You are really fantastic about leaning heavily into the lifestyle and working with the individual too, not just giving somebody a laundry list of, here are all the things, here's how to overhaul yourself your life completely in one fell swoop. You're not also not the practitioner where somebody's going to walk away with like 15 CellCore supplements, be like, this is what I do now, this is my life now. Um, so it's, it's helpful to have that as a resource and a tool to help kind of practice in the way that we really want to be practicing when we're taking a root cause approach. Um, and then, so, so what would be some of the benefits for if a practitioner was thinking about adding this to their practice, what would be some of the benefits?
Rachel Mistry [00:43:03]:
I would say, like we mentioned, it's pretty budget friendly, low cost test. It can be a great way to start supporting your patients from a foundational level if you're on the fence, if you want to run some of those higher level, more expensive tests as well. Again, we take a food first approach and then it's just great. A lot of the patients that we see have gut issues, hormone issues, thyroid issues. Maybe they've got issues with blood sugar or their mood or their energy, and they're doing all of the right things, and it doesn't make sense why the needle isn't moving. This would be a good way to, like, start their care or, like, how can we enter the world of functional testing without it getting too costly or invasive?
Erin Holt [00:43:45]:
Awesome.
Erin Holt [00:43:45]:
Sounds good.
Erin Holt [00:43:46]:
Thank you for this. So, um, if you want to work with Rachel and get some of these labs that we're talking about, run and, um, get her genius on your case. Apply to work with us one on one, and I'll make sure that's linked up in the show notes. And then I forget if I mentioned if this at the start, but FNA enrollment is currently open. So either get your application in, or if your application is already in and you're making a decision, reach out to us, because we can help you with that decision, too. All right, Rachel, thank you.
Rachel Mistry [00:44:13]:
Of course.
Erin Holt [00:44:20]:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Funk'tional Nutrition podcast. If you got something from today's show, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, share with a friend, and. And keep coming back for more. Take care of you.
