Episode 410: GLP-1s Are Not Just About Weight Loss: Conversation with Jessica Brown
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Listen on Spotify
Oh boy… Erin is FINALLY having an unfiltered GLP-1 conversation with the person she wanted to have it with first: Jessica Brown, a clinical nutritionist, Stanford-trained teacher, founder of the GLP-1 Nutrition Academy, author of The Loving Diet and Beyond the Shot, and one of Erin’s longtime mentors.
This is not a “GLP-1s are good” or “GLP-1s are bad” episode. It’s the difference between semaglutide and tirzepatide, what “microdosing” means, and why these medications are being studied for so much more than weight loss. Erin and Jessica also talk about identity, worthiness, body positivity, and the role of social media influencers when it comes to GLP-1s.
In this episode:
Why Jessica believes GLP-1s could become one of the biggest disruptions in modern healthcare
Erin’s thoughts on influencers, GLP-1s, and the pressure to maintain a certain identity online
How AI is impacting lab analysis and why consciousness matters (it’s AI-proof!)
Why GLP-1s are not powerful enough to change your beliefs about worthiness and identity
What practitioners NEED to know as GLP-1s and metabolic health reshape the future of functional medicine
Resources mentioned:
Manifest Your Health is our neuroscience backed membership designed to help you reconnect with your body, regulate your nervous system, and finally break out of the symptom loop.
Subscribe to Erin’s Substack for a no-nonsense space about health, entrepreneurship, and manifestation.
Learn more about Jessica on her website, The Loving Diet.
Check out Jessica’s bestselling books, Beyond the Shot and The Loving Diet.
Organifi Supplement Powder (save 20% on your order with code FUNK)
OneSkin (Use code FUNK for 15% off your first purchase)
Bon Charge (Use code FUNK to save 15%)
LMNT Electrolyte Replenishing Powder (Use code FUNK and get a free sample pack with any purchase!)
-
Jessica Brown:
Ninety percent of America is metabolically unhealthy. That's a big number. And so 90% of everybody who isn't participating more in their metabolic health is going to have the consequences of inflammation. And we know that inflammation is the gateway to all chronic diseases that kill more Americans than anything else we, which is heart disease and cardiovascular disease. And so I was like, wow, I'm going to use a tool that I have. And I did, and it helped a lot.
Welcome to the Funk’tional Nutrition podcast, spelled with a K, because we do things a little differently around here. I'm your host, Erin Holt, and I've got 15 years of clinical experience as a functional nutritionist and mindset coach, creating a new model that I call Intuitive Functional Medicine™, where we combine root cause medicine with the innate intelligence of your body. This is where science meets self trust. Your body already knows how to heal and this show is going to show you how. If you're looking for new ways of thinking about your health, be sure to follow and share with a friend because you never know whose life you might change.
Erin Holt:
Boy, oh boy, this is a big one today, you guys. We are talking about GLP1s. Yup, we're doing it and we're talking about them with Jessica Brown, who is a longtime clinical nutritionist, Stanford trained compassion teacher, and founder of the GLP1 Nutrition Academy.
She is also the author of the Loving Diet and this book, Beyond The Shot. With over 25 years of experience, she helps people heal their relationship with food from the inside out. You can find her aat thelovingdiet.com. She is also a long term mentor of mine and somebody I consider to be a not just a colleague, but a dear friend and somebody I love very much. So I've been wanting to have this conversation, this GLP1 conversation on the podcast for a while because so much is being said about GLP1s and so much research is coming out and I can for sure keep talking about this and interviewing people if you're interested in hearing and learning more. But I wanted to have this conversation with Jessica first. First, this was intentional and by design. She is someone I trust and respect and look up to in the field and I have done so for close to 10 years now. She, like I said, is a former mentor of mine and she's truly a disruptor.
She is one of the most genuinely kind and compassionate people I've ever met in my entire life, but she's a disruptor in that she disrupts ways of thinking and that is just something that I adore so much in people, and she's done that as long as I've known her. She's also really, really able to, I think, skillfully straddle both sides of a conversation and to see things from multiple angles and speak into nuance and context and hold space for paradox to exist. And these are the type of conversations that I'm really interested in having. We are declining close to 100% of podcast interviews when people pitch to us to come on the podcast. Because I just can't regurgitate more of the same here on the show. It's been almost nine years. I can't just have somebody come on and hawk their products and hawk their supplements and, you know, tell you that there's all these things that are wrong with your body, but this one supplement is going to fix it. Like, I just can't do it anymore, guys.
I can't. I'm sorry. If you want this podcast to keep podcasting, like, I can't. I can't do it. These are the type of conversations that I want to have. I want to engage with, and I want to host two clinicians talking about what they're seeing, what they're hearing, what they're doing, and having a pretty raw and unfiltered conversation about it. And we're doing this in an effort to understand. Understand more and to move the conversation forward rather than get stuck in siloed thinking, which I think is really easy to do when you've been at this as long as the both of us have been at this.
There might be parts of this conversation that people don't love love, and I think that's okay. I actually think that's a little bit healthy. The more I sit with this, the more I think about it. I think having our beliefs rubbed up against is actually a good thing. It can be a good thing. So this conversation, we're kind of all over the map with this one, to be honest. We've got GLP highs and lows, pros and cons, things you might not even be aware of that are happening with GLP1s & stuff you might be seeing online.
We'll speak into that a little bit. And then certain aspects of a GLP1 journey that you would not expect. We're really speaking into that. So I just hope that you enjoy this conversation. Like I said, it's between two colleagues, it's between two friends. But I hope you. You glean something about your own lived experience from this conversation, whether you're interested in GLP1 medications or not. I think that there's a lot to glean from this episode, and I hope that it expands your mind in some ways.
So here we go. Okay. Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to have you here. I've been looking forward to this all week.
Jessica Brown:
Hi. I'm so glad to be here Erin
Erin Holt:
Let's just get right into it. We're talking about GLP1s today, and I have intentionally been waiting to have this big conversation until I could get Jessica on the line, because I obviously am a longtime fan. She is one of my oldest mentors. I track everything that she does. And she has been talking about GLP1s a lot over the past few years. Wrote a book, beyond the Shot, that we'll talk about in a little bit. And she just has a lot to share, and I wanted her to share it with you guys. So can we take it from the top in case somebody is familiar with the term but doesn't exactly understand what is a GLP1 and how do they work?
Jessica Brown:
So it's a glucagon, like peptide. So it's a natural hormone that is produced in the gut, and so humans naturally make it. And when we take GLP1 medications, either through injection or oral pills, now we are supplementing our CEL itself with this glucagon, like peptide, and its role is to really help modulate blood sugar and insulin in the body, which is really fantastic for treating diseases like obesity, which is why it was developed.
Erin Holt:
And so some examples would be tirzepatide, semaglutide. They have their brand. Can you talk a little bit about. Because I don't think everyone. I think people hear GLP1s, they hear Ozempic, they hear peptides, but don't really understand how those words all fit together necessarily.
Jessica Brown:
Yeah. So the biggest one is. Well, the old school one is Ozempic, which is a semaglutide, which is a form of a GLP1. But now tirzepatide has come out, and that is a dual agonist. And so it works a little bit more effectively. It has higher rates of weight loss. But then there's all of these other peptides that are coming out on the market, like retatrutide is in final clinical trials right now. And so that will be yet a triple agonist glucagon, like peptide, that's really about to come to market.
And so we have these things all that are sort of building on one another in the end stages of research.
Erin Holt:
And I know For Tirzepatide, for example, tends to have less side effects than semaglutide. Less muscle wasting is I believe is part of it. And then there's less muscle loss, I should say, and then less GI side effects. And so is this third one. I always forget the name of it. I know, I call it the R-one. Do you anticipate that that will have even less side effects?
Jessica Brown:
No, I don't. But this is just me with my own personal opinion because I think Retatrutide. Well, first of all, so semaglutide is Ozempic, Wegovy and Ribolus. And then there's Tirzepatide, which is Manjaro and Zepbound. And then Retatrutide is that triple agonist that has amazing benefits metabolically. But there are side effects and I think that the side effects are going to be a little bit different. It's a little bit more effective, it seems like it burning fat. But some of the side effects might include ones that we haven't really seen with the other ones.
Maybe like heart palpitations, rapid heartbeat, maybe even arrhythmias in some people. So there are going to be side effects that I think we'll start hearing about more within the next year or so. Just like semaglutide and trirzepatide or Tirzepatide has side effects as well. They're real and they are very serious. For all peptides there are real and serious side effects for sure.
Erin Holt:
Well, why don't we. Because this isn't not going. Just to be clear, this is not an anti peptide or anti GLP1 podcast that we're about to record. But I think it's extraordinarily important to lay the foundation so people know what they're getting themselves into. And you, your practice sees a lot of people on GLP1 meds and you are a clinical nutritionist and you have been for 20 years. And so you have an extraordinary amount of practice working with people, being in the trenches. You are not just somebody with a microphone on Instagram talking about their N equals one experiment like, oh, I did this and I got better. You have a lot of experience working with these and I think that's really important to pre frame this conversation with.
But what are you seeing, clinically speaking? Some of the negative side effects. We'll talk about some of the positives in just a minute here. But what are some of the negative side effects that people are experiencing from these medications?
Jessica Brown:
So we know pancreatitis People are having issues with fat, digestion, gallbladder issues, muscle loss. But that goes with one is what the actual medication might do inside the body. And then what are the negative side effects of rapid weight loss? And those are a little bit two different things. And so I see muscle wasting, nutrient deficiencies. Those are things that happen when we have rapid weight loss. But then the other aspect is these are not medications for people who have a history of thyroid cancer. These are not medications for people who have had a history of pancreatitis. And some people do have those.
And also vision loss. Side effects are very rare, though. Although when you go on, you dip your toe into social media, of course, statistics go out the window. And then people start talking about what their own experiences are. I'll preface it by saying side effects are real. They should be honored. Never jump over those. But I'm on tirzepatide, and I have been for almost two years now.
And I did not go on them for the disease of obesity or type 2 diabetes. I went on them for completely different reasons. When I started to see the science that was emerging and how these are actually powerful immune modulators, and I needed that for me, and so I decided to do it for that.
Erin Holt:
Are you cool with sharing your personal experience here on the podcast?
Jessica Brown:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Erin Holt:
Let's stick to this, the side effects, because I know that you see a lot of autoimmunity historically in your practice. You see a lot of chronic conditions. You see a lot of chronic, ongoing GI stuff. Knowing that part of the mechanism of action of GLP1s is that they can delay gastric emptying. Are you seeing big digestive symptoms? Like, I would be concerned with SIBO or constipation or acid reflux or motility issues. Are you seeing those commonly with these drugs?
Jessica Brown:
Yeah. Thank you for saying that, because I did not put gastroparesis in the side effects, and that's a very real side effect. Am I seeing gastroparesis? I'm not. Am I seeing issues with SIBO and constipation? Yes, those are probably the more common ones. I would say constipation and down regulated motility are the ones that I see and also I will use. Like my very closest friend in the whole world went on a GLP1 medication for various reasons. She was supported by numerous doctors and she has, I would call, treatment resistant sibo, where she has gone through what you and I might do in clinical practice, you know, with the motility activators and the antimicrobials and the low fodmap diet. And then she also has done numerous rounds of antibiotics.
She has what I would call like functional motility issues for her whole life, and she was terrified of going on a glp. But she also has a lot of metabolic issues. She microdosed and we worked with her doctor, so that's the first thing to say. We actively worked with her doctor and she went on a very tiny dose because gastroparesis was her biggest fear. And we got her fiber up, we looked at her pancreatic elastase, which was really contributing to her fat digestion. She has been able to successfully go into a GLP1 medication by inching her way up and circumventing her SIBO issues, which is completely treatment resistant from my perspective. And she's not constipated. In fact, she has gotten off of Miralax, which she's been on for years, in order to be able to do her fiber protocol and her digestive enzyme protocol.
There are ways for people to be on these medications when doctors are willing to go off script to let people inch their way in and let the body have time to get used to the medication without the side effects like gastroparesis or motility issues. I think.
Erin Holt:
Okay, so you just said the M word, microdose. And so what would constitute to a microdose? Because there are. I'll share my thought process with this because I. I'm seeing a lot of things being marketed as microdoses that are actually not a microdose. But how does the average person know this? There's like no way for them to really know. What would you constitute a microdose?
Jessica Brown:
I will tell you what I did myself. I'm not a doctor and I'm not a pharmacist. So, like, legally I'm not allowed to prescribe any kind of dose. But I can tell you that what many of my clients do and what I did. So I did tirzepatide. The starting dose of tirzepatide is 2.5 milligrams. I started with 0.5. My friend started with 0.5.
I have a lot of clients that start at 0.5. I think every doctor would agree with me on this. We want to know what the lowest dose is that someone will get metabolic benefit. And that is going to vary across the spectrum.
Erin Holt:
So 0.5 seems to be the dose that I hear people say, what are you on now as your maintenance dose?
Jessica Brown:
Two years in 2.5.
Erin Holt:
2.5. And do you feel as though that's where you're gonna, like, hang out and stay long term.
Jessica Brown:
I think so. I really like it. It's helped so much with my inflammation. Menopause does us so dirty with inflammation. And even though I'm on hormone replacement, Thera, I have a very strong genetic history of heart disease in my family. So for me, and by the way, no doctor would say, Jessica, I got the blessing of both my cardiologist and my primary care doctor. So that's important to say is I did not just go in this blind and say I'm just gonna hack my way through. Although a lot of people are doing that.
Biohackers are taking peptides on the gray market and they are buying them and they are doing a diy. That's okay for them. I want to have the blessing of my cardiologist for me because heart disease is huge issue for me. And they both gave me their blessing going on a microdose. So I started at 0.5. It took me about, I don't know, 9, 10, 12 months to get up to 2.5. Remember, tirzepatide, 2.5 is not a physiological dose. 5.0 is a physiological dose.
2.5 was just what the pharmaceutical companies came up as an entry level to get people in. And I have found that for some people, they're sensitive. You know, they do have motility issues, they have long standing gut issues. We want to honor that. And they do better starting at a smaller dose, getting used to things.
Erin Holt:
I also want to speak into that. Tirzepatide is dosed very differently than semaglutide. And so when you're hearing 2.5, that does not translate between the two different medications. So 2.5 is the standard starting dose. If you went to a doctor and you're like, give me the standard starting dose, it would be 2.5. They go up to 5.0, then they go to, gosh, what, 10 and then 15. And that's where usually people will hang out as 15. The reason that I'm saying this is because there's a tremendous amount of influencers hawking GLP1s.
And I'm not saying that that is a good thing or a bad thing. We will get to that later. But they are sending people to telehealth companies. And these telehealth companies are absolutely everywhere. You see them everywhere. And they are moving marketing micro doses. And what they are starting people at is 2.5 mg for tirzepatide, which is not a micro Dose. It is a standard starting dose.
Again, I'm not saying that's good, bad, or indifferent, but there. I'm just trying to paint a picture that there's actually no definition of what a micro dose is. So people can say whatever they want, but we have people running around on 5.0 milligrams of tirzepatide being told that they're on a microdose and it's not. Not a micro.
Jessica Brown:
Wow.
Erin Holt:
Wow. It is a shit show. Yes, it's a shit show out there because people are just doing it themselves. And I don't. I can't even speak negatively to that because I get it. I get it. I've been through the medical institution myself. I've scrambled for my own solutions or, you know.
Yeah, solutions to my problems. I didn't get them. I understand the desire to go out there, but people are going into these, like, totally blind, and the only thing they have to go off of is literally what is an influencer told them on social media. They don't even have to get a doctor's appointment to get these medications.
Jessica Brown:
It's like, it really is the wild, wild west in so many ways. In so many ways that is worrisome because, you know, I feel like you and I both, we can see both sides. So here I am, I'm doing it myself. I was like, pre. Pre diabetic when I was on my intuitive eating journey and going into menopause. And so I started to get a massive amount of inflammation. I was like, oh, no, no, this is not gonna stay with me. Like, I wanted to do something and intervene.
No doctor would give me a prescription for tirzepatide because I didn't fit the model. So in some ways it's like, well, give people the choice. But then what's happening is that a lot of people who don't understand should not be prescribing medications, are prescribing medications. It's a little scary.
Erin Holt:
It's a lot scary. What do you think? Because I think it kind of depends also on what side of social media you'. You might be hearing that, like, GLP1s and peptides in general are the greatest thing to happen to humans, you know, since sliced bread. Or you might be hearing all of the horror stories and, like, kind of like a lot of shame and judgment too. And it's. It's really hard to know what is right for you. What are some of the biggest misconceptions that you're seeing?
Jessica Brown:
Well, first is, as I just went to the first peptide meeting in San Francisco and I was asked to speak on GLP1.
So I got to see innovation and people who are creating companies around this and where the tech money is going. So that was really fascinating to see. But then I also have just normal people who want to feel better in their bodies and not have metabolic disease and work with quite a few nutritionists also that want to be able to help people piecing back together their health and having hope for the first time. So. So I really am straddling both sides of this. And so we know what I'm seeing is that this world is going to get bigger. Especially because I think RFK Jr just said last week that he is going to start taking off some of the restrictions on peptides. And so I see a lot of people who are buying peptides from places that are a little bit more questionable as far as the purity and where they buy it and they are self medicating, you know, and so I guess if it's legal, they can do that.
I tend to work a little bit more with people who are just trying to feel better in their bodies and they're handling long standing gut issues and chronic inflammation and autoimmune disease. So it's pretty interesting to watch who's on what side and what everybody is doing.
Erin Holt:
We know that GLP1s can be a very, very, very effective strategy for weight loss. I think everybody gets that. What you're talking about and what you've alluded to with your own experience entering peri, excuse me, menopause and having a history of heart disease and seeing this inflammation pick up and be like, hold on, I am a nutritionist. I've done all this work for 20 years. Like what's actually going on? I'm doing everything right. I'm doing the intuitive eating, like all the things.
What sent you in the direction of GLP1s and what is the emerging research that's coming out that is saying like, hey, these things can be effective beyond just weight loss.
Jessica Brown:
I had a life insurance policy where you had to get blood work and it was like right at the end of COVID So I was just going to the doctor less and doing less following of my own metabolic markers. And I got my lab work back and from a functional nutrition perspective, I was startled. From a medicine perspective, they would say, you're great, you're doing great. But me, fine tooth combing it, I was like, Damn, my hemoglobin A1C has just crept up a little bit in the last few years with me being less restrictive around my eating. And so what I realized is that I had inflammation, I had my cardiac, my doctor wanted to put me on statin, my blood lipid markers were out of range for me. And I just thought, okay, what are the tools that I can incorporate here? GLP1 medications are a very effective tool. And now they're so effective, not only is it beyond a reasonable doubt that they work on obesity and type 2 diabetes, but now they're approved for heart failure, kidney disease, fatty liver. And then there's also trials right now, dozens and dozens of trials that are happening right now that are looking at how they're going to be effective for autoimmune disease and also addiction.
And so I just started to dip my toe in and see like, oh my gosh, it could happen to me. And I consider myself to be a pretty healthy person. How many people are grappling with metabolic disease? Number one, here's the thing that nobody wants to talk about in the anti diet world. 90% of America is metabolically unhealthy. That's a big number. And so 90% of everybody who isn't participating more in their metabolic health is going to have the consequences of inflammation. And we know that inflammation is the gateway to all chronic diseases that kill more Americans than anything else, which is heart disease and cardiovascular disease. And so I was like, wow, I'm going to use a tool that I have.
And I did, and it helped a lot.
So I've long made fun of the gummies as supplements trend. It's kind of like adults taking candy and calling it health until I realized that it's the only way my husband will actually consistently take supplements every day. He takes Organifi’s Creatine Cherry Chews and Organifi’s Shilajit Gummies, which is super mineral rich with fulvic acid and humic acids. But my personal favorite, and I do take them every day, is the Happy Drops. They're yummy little lemon gummies that are made with ginger, gotu kola and Passion Flower, all of which are shown to have positive effects on mood and emotional well being. Plus it has saffron, which is shown to help your brain modulate its levels of serotonin. And I do notice a difference in my mood when I am taking these gummies every day, even if they do taste like candy. So if you're excited to try Happy Drops or, or you're just sick of taking your supplements in pill form and you want to get in on the gummy action, head to Organifi.com/funk that's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com/funk and you can save 20% off your order with that code FUNK.
If you struggle with fatigue, headaches, muscle cramps, you might not be getting enough sodium. This might surprise you, but if you eat a primarily whole foods diet, it shouldn't. According to the FDA, 70% of sodium in the American diet comes from processed food foods. So if you reduce or eliminate processed foods from your diet, I strongly recommend you may also be reducing essential sodium. Yes, sodium is essential. It's not an optional mineral. Since I eat a whole foods diet, I heavily salt my foods with sea salt. I also drink LMNT, a tasty and salty electrolyte mix daily. Right now LMNT is offering my listeners a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. That's eight single serving packets for free with any drink mix purchase. It's a great way to try all the different flavors and you can get yours drinklmnt.com/funk. This deal is only available through this link so you have to go to D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T.com/FUNK. LMNT offers a ‘no questions asked’ refunds so you can try it totally risk free.
We've talked before about why OneSkin stands out as a skincare company. It's real science. The founding team are longevity researchers who ask the question, if many visible signs of aging like wrinkles, fine lines and loss of elasticity are driven by so-called zombie cells, what if you could actually reduce those cells to slow the aging process down? That research led to OS-1 OneSkin's proprietary peptide. It's the first ingredient proven to switch off damaged senescent cells and actually slow skin aging. The reason I started using OneSkin is because I really like the story and the science behind the brand. But also because as a 41 year old I was looking for something that didn't bother my sensitive skin. So no fragrance, no other really intense ingredients. When I use OneSkin, I'm giving my skin a clear signal to repair damaged cells, support collagen and strengthen my skin barrier. Born from over a decade of longevity research, One Skin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code FUNK at OneSkin.co/Funk. That's 15% off OneSkin co with code FUNK. After you purchase they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you.
Erin Holt:
What are the mechanisms of action? How can these support autoimmunity, for example? That's one of the things that you just said. How are they working for autoimmunity?
Jessica Brown:
So we have GLP receptor sites all over the body, including on immune cells. What we know now is that when people take even a small dose of a GLP1 medication, it downregulates TNF Alpha. TNF Alpha is an inflammatory cytokine that is activated by an overactive immune system. These are literal downregulators to an overactive immune system. And we know that when we downregulate TNF alpha, we stop producing as many pro inflammatory cytokines like interleukin 6 is a big one that's related to a lot of connective tissue diseases. And so what we are seeing is that when we give the body that and it can actively bind to receptors, it can't bind everywhere because a lot of these, like Tirzepatide is a pretty big molecule. But I just did an Instagram post about how we're starting to see stuff come down the line, like a rheumatoid arthritis patch that is in the first line of testing that uses nanoparticles to bind to GLPs. And the nanoparticles are going right into joint tissue to downregulate TNF alpha at the joint cell and the cartilage cells.
And to me, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so exciting, so exciting as a tool that we're going to be able to use for people with autoimmunity.
Erin Holt:
It's wild. And people are renegades, right? And they will do anything that they can to get better. And I consider myself in that category. And people are genuinely saying, like, these meds put autoimmunity into remission. These meds changed my entire life. And I think when we hear people say that, we're like, oh, because they lost weight. And like, this is absolutely. It may have nothing to do with weight loss.
Like, because you can microdose these things, not have it impact your appetite, not have it impact your weight, but still have it impact positively your immune system. And I think, I think GLP1s have become so conflated with weight loss that we're having a little bit of a hard time teasing that out of the conversation. It doesn't always need to be teased out, but in a situation like this, perhaps it does.
Jessica Brown:
So there's the TNF alpha, how it downregulates TNF Alpha. The other thing is, just because I've had so many direct messages, this is so new, by the way. There's so many studies that are happening right now looking for people to enroll in the studies. But I've had so many DMs on social media that say my rheumatoid arthritis is in remission. I mean, like, the amount of people saying their autoimmune disease is in remission and their doctors are either saying, we don't know know why or it's not related, you know, And I'm like, really? Because all you have to do is go into PubMed and see that not for everybody, but a lot of autoimmune diseases stimulate the Th1 pathway. Tirzepatide helps downregulate the Th1 pathway. So not everybody does well on these medications. And that's important.
We won't want to see it as a miracle drug for all autoimmune diseases because sometimes people tip more TH-1 dominant in their autoimmunity, and sometimes they tip TH-2. And so I've had other people less, but other people say it actually flared me. And that's where we want to have a doctor always be involved. And you want to find doctors who are willing to at least have this conversation. We are so in the dark ages right now, Erin. Like, you and I are having this conversation. Nobody else is. Nobody else is having this conversation.
In podcasts and on social media, doctors are still like, what? Wait, what? They're not looking at the published research. They're not looking at all of the clinical trials that are going on right now. At this moment, there's a very select few people, which is why I'm so happy people are listening to this right now. And I'm thankful that you're bringing this to the forefront, is that these are immune modulators. Obesity is an immune disease. It's a disease that is driven by inflammation, but that starts at the immune level. And so it makes sense that we would be talking about how these medications modulate other things besides obesity, chronic inflammation.
Erin Holt:
It's. I'm so fascinated by it and so excited for everything that you're sharing and all of the research that is coming out. And I'm just. I can't wait to see what else happens from this. And this is why I get a little revved up when people just are like, oh, GLP1s are bad because they're a weight loss strategy. It's just like, the conversation is not nearly as nuanced as it needs to be. But I think we could probably say that about literally everything in health. How do you have this conversation and also make space for body positivity? Health at every size, Intuitive eating, or can we even do that?
Jessica Brown:
It's getting hard. Health at every size. So let's just weigh that. I believe in health at every size. I honestly do. I want that so badly for our world. I want it. Is it reality? No.
How do we know that 90% of the United States is metabolically unhealthy? So how can we say science has actually shown that we're so metabolically unhealthy in this world? And we have health at every size. Health at every size is a freaking luxury. I think. I think it's a luxury. It is a luxury that is afforded by a few. But what we see when we actually go through the clinical steps and say, what's your waist circumference? What is your blood pressure? How's your hemoglobin A1C? How's your inflammation markers? When we start looking and taking that apart, it's like, oh, gosh, I'm sad. I'm sad that it is not available to more people. And I feel like in no way when I say it am I turning my vision away from the amount of stigma that people in larger bodies live in our world.
That, I mean, they're both true. And so here's the other things that we know. Women, not men. Women are stigmatized for having extra weight on their body. And so now we're like, okay, do we. Now you. Maybe you have a choice. If you'd like to go on this medication, you can improve your metabolic health.
And if you'd like, you can actually have less weight on your body. Because we know that weight and fat are two different things. They do different things inside the body. But now you can go get a DEXA scan and you can find out how much fat you have on your body. We know as women age, they build more visceral fat, which has many more endotoxins that really put their risk of chronic inflammatory diseases higher. And so when I started to look at women with fat, not weight, fat on their body have a higher percentage of dying at a younger age from a chronic inflammatory disease. And now we have a tool to help reduce that. Does health happen in every size? I don't see it very often.
Body positivity. I think it's awesome. But are we there yet? Because women make. For every 25 pounds a woman has on her body, she will make less money in the workplace. Men are not punished for that. Women are. So should I make less money now because I want to do body positivity? For sure, that's a choice. But I feel like women should be able to choose what is right for themselves and not be buying into diet culture.
And that's the biggest thing, is that if you're not body positivity and you're pro GLPs, then are you pro diet culture? I think we need to stop saying that.
Erin Holt:
I'm just, like, tired of people telling me how to think and feel and behave. Like, just, like. I mean, maybe that comes as territory of age. I'm 42 years old. I'm like, yeah, I don't care. Like, I'm gonna choose my own choice. I don't give a flying fuck if you like it or if you can categorize it easily or you can put me in a box or not. Like, that is none of my business.
In, like, just let me live.
Jessica Brown:
So if we want to look at a man and a woman age 40, and that man, they weigh the exact same. Okay, now we're not even looking at fat, we're looking at weight. What we know is the economics of thinness says that a man who is 50 pounds more than a woman is going to get the promotion over the woman who is 50 pounds over her normal weight. So then that's what we're looking at now is you have to pay economically to live in a bigger body. And no wonder we had so many eating disorders. No wonder we had so many issues with women around food. They were just trying to get to the same place men were in our society as far as making the same amount of money and getting the same opportunities. And so now I'm like, well now we have a choice about that.
Erin Holt:
And I, I don't think it's just that, I mean that's probably really real and really valid. But like as a 13 year old who was starving herself to death, it was, had nothing to do with like my, my positioning in the workplace or how much money I was going to make or how much I wasn't. But my worth was very, very much. My sense of value is very much tied up into how I looked. And as a product of, you know, the 90s, that was really, really, really true for us. And so I think there's a lot of factors that collude to make us feel that way. And it's like, so we're talking about this and then what is still also true is that women who are underweight, that is also a health risk, that is a major league problem. And I do think that we are seeing that with these GLP1 medications on the market.
I think we're seeing that a lot. People are going on these to lose weight and they do not care, like whatever it takes, like let's get the body as small as we can. This is a tool. And so I think this is where it gets hard to have this conversation because it's like everything we're saying is like on the table and up for grabs and we have to talk about it all
Jessica Brown:
We have to talk about it all. And also it is one thing to sort of look at is while GLP1 medications are being researched right now for alcohol abuse disorder and binge eating, it is counter indicated for people who have a history, a mental health history with anorexia because it will stimulate the pathways that anorexia takes a hold of in people. So if you have an eating disorder, history with anorexia, this is not a medication to even experiment with.
Erin Holt:
So that's pretty wild to hear you say. So one of the things that I, this is Like, a couple of years ago, when these things started getting really popular, I'm like, my gut reaction, my thought was, like, we're going to see a, like, a huge uptick in eating disorders, like, come out of these medications is my fear. And the reason that I say that is because weight loss can be very addictive. And I say this as somebody who dropped a lot of weight when I was younger, and I got so much positive feedback and so much positive reinforcement, and I'm like, oh, weight loss is goodness. You know, me being skinny equates to me being good, valuable, lovable. I want more of that. And it became this thing. Like, there was never an end goal for me.
Like, I just wanted to get as small as possible. And so I know that that addictive quality. And then I think about Jessica, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, because I. I think about the influencers who have built. Built their whole or grown their whole account off of weight loss. And people are like, I want that. I want to look like you. And so they have not just feelings of goodness and positive reinforcement attached to their weight loss, but also potentially their whole, like, how they earn money, you know, like, their whole…
That is all tied up in how they look. And if they're, you know, given. There's a lot of money to be made in these. By the way, if you are affiliated with the Telehealth company, you can make up to 30% of what the GLP1 costs. So if you're spending $900 on GLP1s every three months, like, a third of that can be going to an influencer. I've looked it up. I know the numbers there are big, right? So all of a sudden. Yes.
So it's like, imagine, like, the pressure of being thin and staying thin, then the pressure of doing it on the public eye and layering on your livelihood on top of that, I think that's a lot of pressure to maintain a very specific aesthetic. What does that do to somebody's psychology? And I know we should not be commenting on women's bodies, and I believe that. But also, as nutritionists, we are trained to look for malnutrition. And I can tell you what, there's a lot of these influencer accounts that are getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And I'm like, this is actually becoming a problem.
Jessica Brown:
Yeah, we had to change how we operate. So these medications are not going away. They're going to get bigger. I talked to a lot of people, very nervous about it. Like, I don't have to tell people how to eat healthy anymore. Like my business has gone down because of these medications. Or also then the weight loss piece. I see people panicking.
And so all innovation is going to create a time where we either have to adapt or die. I mean, it's, you know, I hate to say it in a way that is so blunt, but this is going to be changing. And so I tell all the people that I'm in touch with is look at it as an opportunity of the millions of people who need help with their journey, they need help understanding things that are going to be unique to the GLP1 journey, that you're prepared, you're trained, you're educated, you'll be able to help them. And so it's a pivot. So there's opportunity here for people with careers built on this to pivot in a different direction. And that's ultimately going to let us grow. But I think it is interesting how you said weight loss is goodness. And see, that's so interesting.
That's actually why I wrote the book. Because that is an error in the programming that weight loss is equal to goodness. And so there's ways that practitioners can help see that. Because if we think that weight loss is goodness, if we don't do anything with it, if we don't change it, it's going to keep the model of how our thinking is moving forward. And we can't overcome that with willpower. If we think that weight loss is goodness, it's still there. If you're on a GLP1 medication or not, it's still there. If you have an eating disorder, unless you address it, all of these root cause beliefs about people's wholeness and goodness, whether people are on GLP1s or not, are going to remain intact and run the show.
Erin Holt:
I highlighted this quote in your book. “For as much as GLP1 is and will be a transformative medication, it's not powerful enough to change all the beliefs and fears you have about your worthiness and goodness”. And I was like, oh, no. And so that is why you wrote this book, Beyond The Shot. Like, what were you seeing in practice? What void were you looking to fill in creating this book? Because it is the first book of its kind when it comes to GLP1 medication.
Jessica Brown:
Yeah. So I saw what was coming. I saw a tsunami of people who are going to be undergoing massive transformation. And whether that is going into remission for an autoimmune disease or having your heart disease be helped or whether it's you're not in the disease of obesity anymore. Your belief system is there to help you in some way, shape, or form. It's there to help you understand something deeper about yourself, about your wholeness and about your worthiness and your value. And these medications are like all experiences that we have in life, Whether it's a diagnosis of a disease or it's a massive transformation in our body, Everything is going to help us understand where it is that we're limiting ourselves, where it is that we're hiding from ourself. And we think, well, this happened, but I'm really still unlovable, you know, or I got a promotion at work, but I still feel like I'm an imposter.
These beliefs are going to help us claim our original wholeness no matter what. And so GLPS is not an exception to that at all. People will be healthier, but they will still have the same limiting beliefs unless they take the steps to change them. And I thought, wow, there's a huge opportunity to help out millions and millions of people that are going to be on these medications that still think that they're unlovable, that will lose all the weight, and then think that they're cheating or that they're an imposter. And learning how to walk through and change that is a really valuable skill no matter who you are or what your issue is.
Erin Holt:
Because what you're talking about is like an identity change. So if your whole identity is, I am someone with, I am somebody who struggles with weight, and then all of a sudden the weight goes way, what are you left with? Or I am somebody who has this autoimmune disease. I am somebody who struggles with chronic illness. If the autoimmune disease goes into remission, it's like throwing people to the wolves, like, what do I do with this? And it, it might sound so silly to hear that if you haven't lived it or experienced it, because what do you mean my autoimmune disease remission, this is great, but not when you've built your whole sense of self around that thing. And this is why I say, you know, I struggled with disordered eating for 10 years, I put that into remission only to end up with an autoimmune disease. It's like the core foundational beliefs about myself didn't change, so my body was just gonna like, present me other ways to figuring that out and to like really heal and resolve those identity based beliefs about myself and about this place in the world and about my goodness in this world too, about my value and my worth and all those things.
Jessica Brown:
Well said. And for GLP1 users, it's what if my insurance stops coverage? What if for some reason the medication stops working and I lose all the progress I made and I have to go back to the way that it was before, when I was so unhappy and unhealthy. How do I relate to people in this new body? The fears kind of shift when you're on a GLP. Just like when you go into remission for autoimmune disease. A lot of people start obsessively. Maybe not obsessively, but it becomes a point of thinking of how can I prevent it from ever coming back? How can I prevent relapse? What are the things that I need to do to prevent all of that from happening? And then when we look at it, we're talking about health, but the same things happen in our life. Oh, someone broke up with me and cheated on me. How can I prevent that pain from happening again? Oh, I got fired from a job.
I never want to feel that experience again. And so we set life up to prevent us from essentially feeling suffering and self compassion and reparenting. The things that I really like are very effective tools to help be with us while we're nervous, while we're scared, while we're overthinking things, you know, to not judge ourselves, to create a plan to support ourself while we're examining all of the limiting beliefs that are literally running the show, like we said. But most people don't realize it. So most people have absolutely no idea. It's deep down in their unconscious belief. They don't know.
See, I'll use an example. Me, I believed I was unlovable for most of my life. Why? My mom didn't raise me, My parents got divorced. I was born premature. I had a whole list, a laundry list of why I was unlovable. And so then I went into a whole ass marriage to try to prove that I was lovable. See, I wasn't going to prove I was lovable. I was going to get it on the outside and have somebody prove it to me. And then when that didn't work out, my life loved me so much it was just gonna crash and burn it all to the ground.
So I could not any longer believe that I was gonna hire somebody to prove I was lovable because I didn't believe I was capable of taking that on myself.
And so we'll see this come through with the journey of illness, the journey of cancer, chronic illness, job loss, relationship loss, GLP1 medications. It's like our lives love us too much to shield us from the beliefs that we have that are absolutely creating the framework of how we operate. And not only that, these deep seated beliefs will defend themselves to stay there where they're at. Weight loss is goodness, for example, I wrote that one down to, you know, it'll keep coming to that and it'll say, yeah, weight loss is goodness. Let me show you all the ways. And it'll seem so true. And it's actually not.
Does that make sense?
Erin Holt:
It makes so much sense. And one thing that's coming up for me now that I want to speak into is so weight loss was goodness was the narrative for a very long time. And I had to really do a lot of stuff to reprogram that, to heal that, to solve that, whatever language we wanted to put to it. And what I think happened for me is that weight loss became, I don't want to say badness, but weight loss became risky. Weight loss became scary because part of recovering from autoimmunity, like, I did have to put on weight and my body just needed like so many nutrients and it just, like it needed a surplus, it needed an abundance, it needed, you know, we couldn't approach health from a lack mentality anymore. I just needed to give myself everything I needed. And for a while that looked like, like weight gain for a little bit. And so I started to equate weight gain with safety.
And once I recover. Yes. And so what was so interesting in like just proving your point that your life is always like sort of conspiring in your favor, even when it doesn't feel like it, that's usually when it's doing the most work. Once I like, kind of recovered from my autoimmune stuff, I would say, like, okay, I think I'm ready for some body recomposition changes, you know, and like, you know, that was even risky to say that, like, can I actually say that I desire, like, losing weight? Oh, my God. Right? That was a whole thing in and of itself. But I would notice that every single time I started any type of like, new exercise endeavor. And I usually don't moderate my food too much. That's kind of like a.
I know what works for me. So it was usually exercise. I would get injured. Anytime I started to like, lose a little bit of weight, I would get injured and I would get sidelined. So it was almost like I had to look at that belief that weight gain is safety. And, and actually in order for me to stay safe, in order for me to stay healthy, in order for me to stay in remission, weight loss was not on the table for me. So it's just so interesting how the beliefs really show up in different ways.
Jessica Brown:
It's so fascinating when you take an objective look like. And so thank you for sharing that because I'm sure everybody listens to that, helps them objectively see that, oh, that pattern is happening in me also, because it happens in all humans. I think that's why stories are so powerful, is because when you hear other people's stories, then it says, oh my gosh, maybe I should take the risk here and look at my own story.
Erin Holt:
Absolutely.
Jessica Brown:
Because that's how we find out what our beliefs are, is we listen to our own story.
Erin Holt:
Yeah, we get curious about ourselves too. It's not a judgmental eye that we bring to ourselves. It's curiosity. It's looking at our own patterns and just becoming like, I like, joke. Like, I'm obsessed with, like, my own patterns because I'm just seeking to understand myself more so I can meet myself at a deeper and more profound place. Like, I think that that is part of. I think that the most important relationship I have is the one that I have with myself. And so I'm really looking to make that as a solid and pleasurable relationship as I can.
You know, especially. It was a very adverse relationship for a long time. Like, me and myself were at odds, you know, for a while. But I also thinking about this other story. A friend of mine who was always like the skinny one. So she's been one of my best friends since forever. And she was always the skinny one. She never struggled with weight, could always eat whatever she wanted.
And that was like her. That was like her identity. And she never really had to think about it, but, like, that was like her thing. And she recently shared with me that she had taken her husband's GLP1 meds, because when you get them from compounding pharmacies, you just in case somebody's not familiar, you pull your own vial. So you have like an insulin syringe, and then you pull your own dose from a little vial that sits in your fridge. And so that's how she wasn't like sharing a pen with her husband or anything like that. She was just like pulling a little bit. Little dab will do ya.
And I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you telling me that? She's like, I'm telling you this and you can hold me accountable. She's like, I want to share my experience with you. Because I think it could help somebody else. And she was like, one. I was like, but you've always been the skinny one. She's like, I've always been.
And all of a sudden, I gained 10 pounds, and I didn't know what to do with that. And I thought, this is a way for me to restore my identity of the skinny one. And I'm, like, getting so emotional thinking about it, because I've. I've never thought about that from that perspective. It's like, when you're the skinny one, that's the identity you have to uphold, no matter what it takes. And that was like, a doozy. But she also shared that she's not a health nut. You know, she's not.
Not somebody who really, like, prioritizes, like, deep nutrition. So. Which is fine. That's just her journey. But she was like, oh, this is so cool, because I have no appetite. I can eat whatever I want. So that would be an example of somebody on these medications who would absolutely be at risk for, like, nutrient deficiencies. Because she's like, cool, I can eat, like, fish and chips, like, no problem.
A couple bites. But not really prioritizing nutrition. But then she also realized that it was a really slippery slope. And she's like, I like the way this feels. I like weight loss. I like the way this feels. I've never experienced this before.
This is good.
And that actually scared her. And it kind of scared her enough to be like, maybe I should reevaluate this decision for myself.
Jessica Brown:
Wow.
Erin Holt:
Lot there. Lot to unpack there.
Jessica Brown:
I mean, if I were talking to her and we were tracking it, I would say, how did you, the skinny one identity help you? How did it keep you safe? And because, see, if we're identifying with skinny, then we want to look at it from the. Is it abundance or lack? And so if there's any place that a skinny identity would be keeping us safe from something, protecting us in some way, then it will be built on lack. And see, then there's that opportunity of, like, oh, she went in and did that one dose of glp, and she came to that realization, I'm scared to lose my skinny identity. Well, why? And so then, as practitioners, we can go in and help her explore that and then build inner resources to be able to be with herself. If she's scared of giving that up, it will help regulate her nervous system.
If you're low key, obsessed with aging and longevity, stem cells is one of the things you want to be thinking about. They're like your body's built in repair crew, but as we age, that system slows down. So Qualia Stem Cell was created to promote healthy levels of circulating stem cells and help your body renew itself. So if you've ever felt like your body just doesn't bounce back like it used to, whether it's after a workout, getting sick, or just the wear and tear of life, this one is for you. Qualia Stem Cell was designed to support your body's natural repair systems, helping you heal, recover, and keep going strong. And right now, you can try it for up to 50% off at qualialife.com/funk and here's a bonus: Use code FUNK for an additional 15% off your order. That's Q-U-A-L-I-Alife.com/funk. Your body's built to repair itself. Qualia just helps it do that better. And a big thanks to Qualia for sponsoring this episode.
I am so excited to announce a new sponsor with you guys, Bon Charge. I love this brand. They make the most incredible products And the one that I've been using and loving for the past six months is their red light face mask. The past few years, my rosacea and the redness on my face has gotten worse. Now you guys know the deal, skin is an inside job. Our gut health, what we're eating, really impacts the health of our skin. So we do have to support our skin internally, but it can also be supported externally as well. And that's where the Bon Charge Red Light Face Mask has come in for me. I use it about three to four times a week, 10 minutes a pop. It's super easy. I do it first thing in the morning and I have noticed less redness and even a more even skin tone. Other things that the red light mask can help with are fine lines and wrinkles, acne, eczema, sore jaw and migraines. Red light therapy is awesome. It's hugely researched. There's thousands of peer reviewed studies on it. So if you want to take advantage of red light therapy, go to boncharge.com and use the coupon code FUNK to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com and use coupon code FUNK to save 15%.
Erin Holt:
What would be an example of an inner resource that you would help somebody establish?
Jessica Brown:
The best ones I have found are the mixture of re Parenting, which is being the solid, stable, loving presence for yourself and self compassion, which is this idea that we can give ourselves kindness struggling. And so when we blend those things together, it increases emotional resilience. It actually helps the parasympathetic optimization of the nervous system. It helps with vagal tone. But the emotional resilience increases when we blend those things together. And those are very valuable skills for people walking any road with chronic illness, cancer diagnosis, GLP1, medications. We talk about diet culture, anti diet culture. Let's just throw that all out and just be kind to yourself and see where your limiting beliefs are and use self compassion and reparenting to help with that.
Erin Holt:
And by the way, for everyone listening, a lot of this is mapped out in Jessica's book Beyond the Shot too. So if you're like, where do I even start with that? Start with the book. You can get the book and start there. There's a lot of stories. But then also like, here's how to put these things into practice as well. So when you're working in practice with somebody on a GLP1, you are, I'm assuming, making sure that they're getting ample nutrition. Are you making sure that they're not losing weight too quickly? Are you helping with dosing? Or is that, are you hands off from that?
Jessica Brown:
I'm giving them prompts. A lot of the work that I do is. Here's what I want you to ask your doctor. The other thing that I do though is really track micronutrient deficiencies. I have sort of like a rule of thumb. If you lose more than two pounds a week, then you're looking at muscle loss, bone fragility, and micronutrient deficiencies. So there's that practical thing. I'm tracking people doing micronutrient testing to make sure that there isn't a place that we need to address looking at what their genetic SNPs are and the best kinds of multivitamins they can be on, you know, prioritizing protein.
But then people are so focused on protein also, you know, just trying to find like a thing that people are, can manage themselves. They don't feel overwhelmed with looking at the gut microbiome. Huge, huge, huge. I tell people, look, look at your gut microbiome before you go on a GLP1 medication. Because a lot of what we're talking about is the loss of keystone species that produce GLP1 in the gut anyway. And the question is, is, is that possible to even gain that back? Even if we have a diet that's high in polyphen fiber. Is it possible to get keystone species that are in charge of making a lot of GLP1s with the amount of ultra processed foods, the amount of environmental toxicity that we're all facing? I am varying between I don't know and I don't think so. And a lot of people get really upset about me saying that because am I saying gut restoration isn't possible? I'm not.
But do I see it as much as I'd like? No. No, I don't. I do not see. And we can't really measure GLP in the gut anyway. We can just measure how well someone's metabolic health is. But yeah, it's a. It's a huge issue we're sort of facing in society, a downhill slide. We're losing gut health in humans, period.
Erin Holt:
I mean, it's not, you're not wrong, you know, it's not the things people want to hear. But I mean, we're probably at hard truth time time when it comes to health in our environment. And like just being humans, we're probably at hard truth time. That and AI Jessica's itching to talk about AI. Give me one second. I want to back up and ask if somebody were interested in starting GLP1s and maybe it is for, like, experience like you had with menopause, knowing that cardiovascular risk goes up, up. Maybe they're seeing more inflammatory markers. Maybe like you, they're seeing their A1C go up and they're like, what in the actual F is going on here? Or maybe somebody has an autoimmune condition or chronic illness and they're kind of curious whether or not something like tirzepatide or another GLP1 would impact them positively.
Is that the starting point or are there other things that you would recommend people do? And I've heard, you know, different people say different things here, but I've also heard that like, different. Just throwing a GLP1 medication into kind of like a shit show of like human health isn't going to be the panacea that we want it to be. And we might need to take more of a stepwise approach. So maybe working on certain factors of your health before attempting these meds, where do you net out with that?
Jessica Brown:
I think it's a personal decision, you know, I mean, Erin, you're a nutritionist, I'm a nutritionist. So our level of baseline of where we want to start might be different. So I've been through the years of disordered eating. I know how hard it is to eat keto or carnivore. It's like, I've been there, I've done that. Do I have a foundation of healthy eating? Yes. Do I know what ultra processed food is? Yes. Do I exercise? Yes.
Jessica Brown:
So I kind of check the boxes, but everybody's going to have different boxes. Some people are so hopeless with how they look in their bodies and how their body feels. The GLP1s are going to give them a leg up. They're going to finally have the mental space to start saying, damn, I do want to eat more vegetables. You and I are not in that camp. We already do the vegetables. And so for me, I was like, oh, I'm going to just start a GLP because I've heard so many great things about it and I want to tend to my metabolic issues also because I was going through menopause. Menopause is one of the biggest immune events that women experience, and it will mess with your metabolic health period.
Jessica Brown:
I mean, we know that it just varies for each person. And I say too, for everybody, find a practitioner that you really like that maybe thinks outside the box a little bit, you know, that says, tell me what's important to you, because what's important to you is what's important to me. Rather than getting with a practitioner that says, I want you to do this, this and this, or I won't work with you.
Erin Holt:
You know, I am so surprised how many people, like our clients will, like, feel so embarrassed, ashamed, nervous, scared to even ask the GLP one question, like, should I be considering this? And I'm like, oh, this is a safe space here. I'm like, you. Like, this is not like you get to say. Say anything here. We're working for you, we're supporting you. And I just think that really speaks to how much stigma is attached to these things. The fact that people feel nervous even asking their practitioner, like, do you think this is good? Do you think this is bad? Is this something I should consider? And that makes me feel really sad.
Jessica Brown:
It's incredibly sad. But innovation is coming for you. So, you know,
Erin Holt:
Get ready.
Jessica Brown:
Yes. Buckle in. And it's going to go faster than we've ever seen it go before. You know, like it or not, it's happening. I see it. I talk to quite a few nutritionists, I'm sure you do too, who are. Feel a little bit lost, and they don't really understand where their place is, what they're going to be doing. Functional medicine practitioners as well, you know, so we are, we are entering in A truly new time.
Jessica Brown:
GLP1 medications is part of that, that you know. So when we look at how AI and GLP1 medications are creating this interesting avenue, I think it's fascinating. Everything is here to assist us with something about forgetting our wholeness. And GLP1 medications are a very useful tool for helping with people do that. That's why I like them so much.
Erin Holt:
And I'm always just on the side of giving people more options, not less, like more healing opportunities, more on ramps to healing I like to call them. Not taking them away. Like that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. So you've said AI a couple of times if you are. Because we were talking about this off air a little bit. Because we do have a lot of health practitioners that listen to the show and people are freaking out about AI and the fact that ChatGPT can kind of analyze and interpret labs for clinicians or for people. You can get, get your hands on functional labs anywhere and then just have ChatGPT put together a protocol for you. Like what does that mean for the future of this industry in this field and how do we navigate that?
Jessica Brown:
One is work in the field of consciousness because AI can never be conscious. And so when you look at the journey that people are taking with their health, then there's always going to be a consciousness component, always, no matter what area someone has. So hone those skills. The other is that the amount of people who are going to be willing to work on their health, who are moving into GLPs that finally have hope is going to skyrocket. There are going to be more people that want to find GLP1 literate practitioners than anything else, I think. And so be a part of that and use your skills to compassionately listen, to cheerlead, to tell people like, oh my gosh, this is so great. Let's do a couple of changes in this diet and this one A I can give it to you. But to have a warm, kind, loving person saying, it's so exciting watching you go through your health journey, that's a consciousness thing.
And so be a part of that, like just build those skills. We've done it before, you know, within other areas of our life, especially as professionals. We learned what Paleo meant 10 years ago, 15 years ago. This is a new thing. And so everybody's had practice that they can do it. But working in the field of consciousness is completely AI proof. And that's why, again, why I wrote the book is because it's going to be touching everybody's life because everybody is going to be able, I'm putting this in quote, quotes in case somebody's just listening, putting air quotes. Everybody's going to be able to be a doctor with AI.
Erin Holt:
That's going to piss people off for sure. But I completely understand the point that you're trying to make. And I also think that we're seeing this on social media too. And maybe the last question that I will ask you is for people who are just trying to figure their health, health out and are going to social media to do that, which I completely understand. People are being underserved in a lot of places and spaces and they just want to figure out what works for them. So I get why people go online to find their health information. I get why people turn to influencers. I get why somebody looks at somebody and says, you cracked the code for you.
Oh, you can probably help me crack the code for me too. Like, I completely understand. So I'm not shaming anybody that gets their information from Instagram. It's why we show up on Instagram and provide information, information so people can find it. How do people navigate it? How do people figure it out? How do people know who to listen to? There's so much conflicting information. There's so much this in that and anti this and anti that. And then there's wellness influencers and now there's doctors coming out being like, don't listen to wellness. I have so much compassion for people who are just trying to figure it out and getting hit with every single message under the sun.
How do they navigate that?
Jessica Brown:
That's like the million dollar question, Erin. I would say one is, how do you feel when you see somebody like they're giving you their spiel? How does it make you feel? So that one is, does it make you feel good or does it make you feel like you're missing something or you're scared or it puts the fear in you. That's important. The other thing is I'm more for taking more breaks on social media of just not exposing yourself to as much of it, curating your feed, getting with a few people that you really like, because they're going to have a few people they really like, you know, and like you build your network. But I think the biggest thing is how does it make you feel? Do they seem like a nice person? I mean, I know that's such a simple question, but that's sort of like how I do it. It's like I want to understand how to get more information that I'd like, that I don't have. And then also, does it seem like their heart's in the right place, you know?
Erin Holt:
Yeah. I mean, nice people can give shitty advice sometimes, but is their heart in the right place? Is it good? And how does it make you feel? Because there is a lot of fear mongering, clickbait information. And I know how I feel. Like I know the frequency of that. And that is an immediate no for me, that I immediately turn away from that because I don't need to be brought into my fear when it comes to my health and my body and my ability to heal. So that would be like an immediate no. And I just don't really think a lot of great stuff comes out of fear mongering information. Like, I just don't think that that is.
So it's like one of my rules that I kind of go by.
Jessica Brown:
Yeah, yeah. Because GLPs could be seen as, I guess, fear mongering. Everybody needs to lose weight to cure their obesity, you know, and that is one way to look at it. But we do have an obesity issue that is fueling chronic disease that is causing a massive economic impact. So that is one thing that 90% metabolically unhealthy. But then there's this other part, which is science is really cool. Like people are doing super cool, innovative stuff. And I love hearing all the stuff that maybe doesn't make the headline news, which is why I sort of take a lot of scientific studies.
To me, that's really exciting. Is it going to apply to everybody? God, no. But it's like, let's make it a little bit fun. Let's make it enjoyable. Also, while we're watching, a lot of really hard things happen in the world too.
Erin Holt:
Yeah. And you bring a sense of awe and wonder into your content. So Jessica is doing a lot of GLP1 forward education and like staying up on the latest research and the latest studies. And so her account is really like pretty forward with that. So I love it. But you're always like, isn't this so cool? You know, like, you bring this sense of playfulness and awe and wonder. And I think that, yes, I'm interested in the information that you share, but I'm also very interested in the way that you share that information because it makes me feel really good and hopeful and excited and expansive and so I love what you're doing.
Jessica Brown:
I will say I am putting a practitioner program together for people who work with GLP1 users so that they can help navigate the emotional terrain that comes along with it. Because it is a unique area that we're talking about that will be helpful based on everything that I wrote in the book as well. And so know there are so where we, we are and we need more resources. So we need more resources to back up the tools that we're seeing coming down the pipeline. And you know, GLPs are going to be one of the biggest seller medications that are ever sold in the history of histories. So we might as well prepare all of the practitioners to be able to lovingly help everybody on the journey that they're taking.
Erin Holt:
Yeah. And what I'm hearing is like, now is now the time to put, put your head in the sand because you feel overwhelmed by it. And now is not the time to form a rock hard judgment about what these medications can or cannot do. I think it's really about look, listen and observe. Let's learn. Now is the time to really pay attention to people's lived experiences and learn as much as we can.
Jessica Brown:
Yeah.
Erin Holt:
Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Again, my hope and my intention is that people walk away from this show just feeling less like there's a new, fresh perspective that they can have. I mean, we're certainly not sitting here telling people how to feel because that's not the approach that either of us take with anything. But more so to be like, isn't this interesting? You know, this is something to maybe look into and like, here's how we're thinking about it and here's how we're feeling about certain things. And so I hope it just gets people to expand their minds a little bit and think in new ways.
Jessica Brown:
Yeah. Thank you for expanding people's minds and hearts.
Erin Holt:
And hearts. Speaking of which, by the book, Beyond The Shot, it is tools to be able to expand your heart. And obviously, I mean, I've read the book, so I know that, yes, it's very catered to people on GLP1's Inner Work for lasting success on weight loss medications. But a lot of this also can extend to other things that people are navigating with their bodies and their health too. So it's not. I mean, I know you gotta market a book, but I will say that it's not GLP1 exclusive.
Jessica Brown:
Right. For a lot of people with hard relationships with trauma, eating disorders, disordered eating, orthorexia, you know, fears about the future. Yeah, lots of stuff.
Erin Holt:
All right, thank you so much, Jessica.
Thanks for joining me for this episode of the Funk’tional Nutrition Podcast. Please keep in mind this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be use as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment. If you got something from today's show, don't forget, subscribe, leave a review, share with a friend and keep coming back for more. Take care of you.